Breaking Into the MSL Role by The MSL Academy™ - Episode 7 with Dr. Beth Thomas

Alright. And we are live. Well, thank you to everyone who has joined already to our episode this month of office hours with doctor Swathi hosted by The MSL Academy™. And today, we have a wonderful guest, doctor Beth Thomas, who's gonna tell us a little bit about her background, and then both of us are open to answering any and all questions you might have about becoming an MSL and and how that can be your path too. Alright.

So let's hop right into it. Beth, if you could give us a little intro to who you are and a little bit about your path. Of course, we'll dive a lot more into much of that later. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me, Swathi, and excited to to be here with you all, share a little bit about my journey.

So I am a pharmacy by training, have almost seventeen years of experience, and have worked across community pharmacy, managed care, hospital outpatient, as well as the medical device industry. And in addition to that, have also done some consulting in medical content creation and education, and I've also served as a clinical advisor for digital health platforms to help them to, really sort of streamline their materials and come up with with their clinical pathway. So lots of varied experience in traditional as well as nontraditional sort of path, but I would say the sort of the key, kind of that common thread amongst all my experiences has really been the requirement for me to be able to build, like, impactful and lasting relationships with with health care providers, and be able to take scientifically complex information and really be able to translate that easily to providers, and and that is across a wide variety of audiences. And that's really sort of what laid the foundation for my interest in the in the MSL role, particularly with my my most recent work, working in the medical device industry. So, yeah, that's a little little bit about me.

Amazing. And how did you initially hear about the MSL role? Yeah. So it was it was really in that most recent role that I mentioned working on the commercial side. So, in a medical before a medical device company and within what I'd like to call an MSL adjacent role.

So didn't have the title, was working on the commercial side, but was doing a lot of the things and utilizing a lot of the skill set, that's required for for MSL. And it was really through kind of working in that role that really piqued my interest in the MSL role, Because one of the one of the major parts of of that role was educating and interacting with providers and regularly, you know, kind of checking in with them, getting those insights, figuring out how I could be a resource for them. And I realized, hey. I I really like this part. Love the the patient care part.

We'll never, you know, never kind of let go of that direct patient care piece, but really love the opportunity to be able to talk one on one with providers and and really have kind of those impactful conversations. And I wanted the the opportunity to really be able to make more impact, right, in a bigger area, and really have more of those conversations. Amazing. And so as you were, you know, on your quest to becoming an MSL, so you heard about it. You were already doing, you know, types of similar, you know, work already in the medical device space.

What was one of your biggest challenges or maybe more than one challenge you wanna talk about that you faced when you were trying to make the transition and get your first MSL role? That's a great question. I have to say truthfully, and this is this is kind of an interesting thing. So as I mentioned, I have a lot of diverse experience. So across nontraditional, traditional roles, and probably one of my biggest challenges with taking all of that and sort of weaving a cohesive story, right, writing my MSL story, and and really tailoring that to to fit the position.

Like, there was so much I had so much experience that I think in a lot of ways, my my thought and my challenge was how do I kind of distill this? How do I make this relevant for the MSL role? And so that was that was an interesting journey of and I I will talk about this a little bit more later, I'm sure, but I do have to say if you're having that assistance from The MSL Academy™ to help kind of tailor and tweak my story was incredibly helpful. And that is so much of, you know, the being in MSL is being able to articulate and tell a story. And so I I I love that you bring that up because I think a lot of people, at least a lot of the people who are interested in The MSL Academy™ and interested in just overall making a transition into the MSL space, they oftentimes think that, you know, what I did in community pharmacy or what I did in the ambulatory care setting or what I did in a sales role somehow doesn't and can't be translated because it's not specifically an MSL role.

But at the end of the day, it's really about how can I use this set of skills, or I talk about it like tools in a toolbox, and then how can you actually use those same tools and then tell the story that shows that you understand what the MSL role is and that you can actually do it too? So I I love that you brought that up. Yeah. Yeah. Such great points.

And I love that you into community pharmacy too because I was thinking about that, like, as I was sort of thinking about this office hour session today and just sort of reflecting with the healthcare providers with the health care providers in the community. So in my specific kind of territory, my sphere, build trusting relationships with them, learn how to be a trusted resource for them, learn how to bring information to them in a way that was relevant so that we could ultimately help patients, whether that was calling about a drug interaction to get that resolved or calling about an allergy, and really real, you know, using different techniques to to really kind of, even getting past those gatekeepers keepers as we like to call it, you know, and and getting getting able to or being able to to really, kind of move past them to speak to the provider. So I think that's really important that you that you mentioned that. So really powerful to think about even in community pharmacy, outpatient, hospital. We are still using those relevant skill sets.

That is going to be a sound bite that hopefully will go viral because, exactly what you said. And that's that's really because so many people that reach out to us are like, oh, I've only been a community pharmacist. I'm like, what do you mean only? Like, you've done so many things that can then translate. So amazing.

So the the next question I wanted to ask you is, you know, many aspiring MSL struggle with, you know, the chicken and the egg problem. So that could be, you know, needing MSL experience to land MSL roles. And so how did you navigate that? I guess we talked about that a little bit with, you know, telling the right story and demonstrating transverbal skills, but could you expand upon that? Yeah.

So in in my case, I actually had been in some, I would say, pretty unique positions where I I really was doing similar work to what I do right now under the the sort of the NFL title. So being able to not only, kind of pull those, those skill sets and and tell the story, but having real world example, I think was really helpful to me too. So I in in prepping for, my interviews, prepping for kind of the panels, the presentation, things like that, I really drew and focused on real world examples using that that star format that I'm sure many of you may be familiar with, situation, task, action, result, and that really it not only helped me, you know, to be able to perform well in the interview, but it also helped me to really get in my mind, hey. Even though I haven't had the MSL title, I have really done this. You know?

I can I can do this, and it was good for me to see it, write it out, have that in my mind, talk about it, you know, really remember it, focus on it? So, yeah, I I don't have I didn't have formal MSL experience, but I've done so much in my career that is relevant and that will help me to be successful in the MSL role. Amazing. And for someone who doesn't or maybe is not familiar with what the MSL interview process looks like, could you talk a little bit about that? Yeah.

So I will say it could be intense. But but it's it's good, and I think it's good to to really keep in mind that the interview process can be similar to what you would face, right, out whenever you do become an MSL. So really kind of going in with that mindset and recognizing this is preparing me for what I ultimately want. But I'll speak specifically to my interview process. So I had the initial, phone screen with an HR recruiter, then I had a, virtual call with the hiring manager, then I had so my company did it a kind of a little bit differently, but I had a series of interviews, in kind of been one, kind of one day where I talked with a commercial person, another, person who was on the medical affairs team, another NFL.

So did all of that and then had the final presentation interview. So, in total, I think maybe, like, six ish interviews. And interestingly, this was actually kind of similar to the the process I had, in my previous role, the role that I mentioned that was the NFL adjacent, but on the commercial side. So, that, you know, that's kind of a consistent I would say that's sort of a consistent process that you'll have those, those sort of, rounds or series of of rounds. Can you talk a little bit about the presentation and what that entailed?

And I know for each company, they can go about it just a little bit differently, but what was your experience like? Yeah. It was and and out to your point, every company does it differently. For my presentation, I was able to choose my topic, which was, you know, which was a a good thing. I know sometimes, some companies will have you pick a topic and or will they will pick a topic, and then you will have to speak on that.

And I really focused on and I I think this is important for aspiring MSLs to to hear as well. I really focused on a topic that I was familiar with. Right? So I don't that was kind of that can be sort of a struggle or question mark in people's mind. Well, should I speak about something that's, you know, relevant to this company's therapeutic area, or should I speak more about something that I'm familiar with?

So in my opinion, I think that you should speak about something that you're familiar with, and something in which you're prepared to answer questions, and you're prepared to be, sort of the expert in the room, right? And you can feel comfortable and confident that you can fully showcase and highlight your skills to your maximum potential. So I I did that. My presentation, I believe, was about twenty maybe twenty fifteen to twenty minutes, with my allotted time, and then there were ten minutes for q and a. So, another tip that I'll sort of throw out there as well, have backup slides.

You know, go through your go through your presentation, as many, you know, as many times as you can. Speak it in front of other people, you know, if you have friends or, even family members. Right? That you can just practice in front of, practice it as much as you can, and sort of try to anticipate some of the questions that may come from that slide, and have those backup slides ready. That is just, I think that's so impressive.

And I used that tip during my presentation, and I think it went over really well and still use it to this day even as I give presentations as an MSL. I completely agree, and I give everyone who's interested in getting their first MSL role or even after getting a promotion and and shifting to a new company, I give everyone the same piece of advice that no one expects it on the hiring side that you're gonna have you you know, you will have anticipated the questions, and then you will not only anticipated the questions to have the answers, but you'll have slides associated with it. It's just it it really takes it to the next step, and it really helps you stand out in the process. Because as most of you know listening likely, that this is a very competitive role and, and path. One of the things that I didn't mention in the beginning before we get to more questions is I see we have quite a few people here live.

If you have any questions, please feel free to, you know, put them in the chat. We will go through, you know, kind of our list and, you know, talk a little bit about, some of the things that we prepared. But then after, we are more than happy to answer any questions about the interview process, whether you're an aspiring MSL or looking to uplevel your, you know, current position as as a current MSL. So I just wanted to mention that I normally do that, you know, earlier in the in the session, but we just got right into it and been having to take a few patients. So, yes, as I mentioned, please put your, questions in the chat, and we will get to them, as we as we continued at the end.

Okay. So getting back to what we were talking about, you know, we talked quite a bit about the interview process. But in your job search, what was the turning point that you really think helped you land your first MSL position? Was it a moment? Was it an experience?

Like, what was it for you? I'll say it was an experience. So real and I I have to keep going back to this because that storytelling. Right? That that is just so so important.

And I think the turning point was really the the CV optimization and LinkedIn profile optimization. And I did get assistance with that, through The MSL Academy™, and that did represent sort of a turning point in my search. Up to that point, I'll say, I had been, not necessarily applying in a structured way, just kind of casually looking, and then made the decision, hey. This is what I really want. You know?

I I really wanna go for this. And that's when I I engaged, I engaged the the NFL Academy and got that LinkedIn optimization, that TV optimization. And in addition to that, got some tips for really having a structured application approach. And that was really important for me too. Meaning that, you know, every week, I sort of had, you know, okay.

I'm gonna apply for this many jobs. I'm gonna do this. And sort of having that checklist to go through gave me some confidence. Right? And it it gave me the consistency that I needed to feel like I'm doing something every single day, no matter how small it may seem to keep myself moving forward on my job search.

And that was really powerful. Amazing. And so as you were going through the process, you mentioned that you were looking at roles. You know, did you end up applying to any roles before working with The MSL Academy™? I did.

I did. So I I could maybe estimate. I would say maybe maybe 10. Yeah. So maybe 10 that I applied to.

Yeah. Before before work And then in total, how many did you apply to before you landed your first role? Oh, goodness. Swathi, I may have blocked that out just because but, I don't if I were to estimate, I would say maybe 20 to 25, maybe. Yeah.

I would say maybe 20 to 25. Yeah. That's probably on the lower end of what I've heard. I and and it probably is, but I think, and that's I I have to say credit though too to the storytelling and positioning, you know, because I think that played a big role and the fact that, as I mentioned before, I already had kind of some experience in that sort of NFL adjacent role, so I do think that that was advantageous. Definitely.

And what would you say to someone who's listening to this? Perhaps they're an aspiring MSL. They really you know, maybe they're in a clinical role right now. Maybe they already work in industry. But what sort of advice would you give to someone who is looking for the right guidance or mentorship as they break into the field?

Yes. I would say one thing that can be helpful and and maybe just important as you think about searching and trying to find that, that role that's a good fit for you, is maybe looking for people for NFLs who have maybe a similar background. So it had kind of a similar kind of professional background professional trajectory to you and asking them, hey. How did how did you do it? You know, really seeking out and and paying attention to how they position themselves.

You know, asking them kind of those probing questions about, well, what was, you know, what was your biggest challenge, how did you overcome that in the interview process. I think that can be important, and in in my experience, what I found is that many times people who have, maybe had a sort of non traditional route, they are very apt to help, and they want to, you know, kind of help other people with, you know, kind of maybe similar, challenges to be able to overcome those to get into these roles. So I would say just be encouraged, look for for people who maybe can give you kind of some tailored, tailored advice based on based on your specific situation. Be focused and be consistent also. And also I would say to just really consider that this this process, this application, this job search process, it is, as I mentioned earlier, similar in many ways to some of the things that you'll have to do as an MSO.

So consider it consider it practice, you know, real world practice, and don't consider it to be because I I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but consider this to be kind of the practice for for the, you know, kind of the real thing. And I think that having that sort of that mindset shift can be really helpful to you as well. Yes. Definitely. And I do see a comment in the chat that came through.

Sometimes there is a little bit of a lag, so I I apologize if if this came in a bit ago. But I did just see, is the session being recorded? Yes. It will be recorded, and it will live on our YouTube page. So we will have it there likely in the next week or so you'll be able to listen to it.

Also, if you like this session, we have a bunch of other amazing, current MSLs and MSL directors that we've interviewed over the, you know, past almost a year oh my gosh. More? Oh, about a year of just interviewing a lot of really, really great professionals, who are in the MSL space. So you can head to our YouTube, and you'll see this one in about a week, with the recording there, but we also have other ones, there too. Okay.

Great. So the the next thing I wanted to ask you about is, you know, now that you're in MSL, what are some of the aspects of the role that you enjoy the most? And then on the other side of that question, what have been some of the unexpected challenges? Good. Great question.

Most, really, just that that interaction with the providers. I mentioned that before, learning how and that's been something that I've had to get, you know, very familiar with and and, you know, kind of really, really dive into that, but really figuring out how to kind of tailor my conversations to what they need. That's one thing that I I think we kind of sometimes may overlook, you know, we get data and we wanna kind of just talk talk about the data and stuff, but it's it's really an art to figuring out what's going to resonate most and in what way with with the health care providers, and I really enjoy that. Although it is a challenge, I do I do enjoy it because I think that's what keeps things interesting, and also keeps my skills sharp to to be quite frank. And it's good to that I think that's one of the kind of one of the biggest parts of the MSL role is gathering those insights and bringing back kind of useful information to your company that they can use to to inform strategy.

So really, really enjoy that part, that can and we could flip to the other side about the challenging part. That is one of the challenges too, but also another challenge that I'll say, has been really kind of developing my, own sort of organization organizational system, right, for for how I do my accomplish my day to day roles and responsibilities. The the thing about being an MSL that that I've learned and that I've seen, you know, oftentimes you have you do have sort of competing priority. You know, you're working with lots of different teams, lots of different stakeholders, and really just learning how to to balance that effectively, so that you can still, you know, accomplish everything that you need to accomplish and and be a good internal partner. I think that that can be a challenge, a a good challenge.

Right? But really figuring out what your personal kind of organizational system is. That that is something that I'm kind of continually working on. And I think it does require just kind of trial and error and just talking to your colleagues, tweaking along the way, seeing what's worked for for other people, kind of getting some guidance there from more experienced MSL. That can be incredibly helpful as well.

Yeah. And that kind of leads me to my next question. You kind of hinted at it already, but what makes a successful MSL? Like, if you're looking at you know, let's think of, you know, people maybe on your team that you look up to or people who are, you know, up for a promotion. What makes a good MSL stand out from the rest or a great one, I guess?

Yeah. Yeah. I think it could be honestly summed up in in one word. And that that one word is curiosity. Right?

Curiosity about your, your KOL and about what's driving them and driving their decisions and their treatment decisions, knowing how to ask skillfully, ask those probing questions to really well, you know, and and really, you know, being being polite about it, but also, you know, really trying to get to the meat of the matter, right? They say, well, why do you think that? Or what so curiosity about that, and also curiosity when it comes to kind of your internal projects and, you know, and, making those relationships with coworkers and cross functional partners. So that willingness to learn, that willingness to ask questions, I think is really what makes a great MSL. That's how you and and really, I would say just not not being afraid to, kind of to not know something.

Right? If you don't know, ask. I think that's what, you know, that that that makes a huge difference. So curiosity, just curiosity internally with internal stakeholders, curiosity with external stakeholders, always being ready to to kind of, strategically implement to the new things that you're learning, being open to new challenges, you know, projects come up, really kind of being, oh, well, yeah, I've never done this before, but you know what? I'm willing to give it a try.

You know? Just really kind of thinking thinking of things as a learning experience and being open to that. So I think that that really is what makes a great, MSO. Okay. Great.

So, I normally stick to the questions I wanted to ask really badly, but we have some really good ones in the chat, that I've talked. So I would love to hop to those. And then if we have time, I can, you know, fill in, at the end. Or if there are more in the chat, happy to take more from the chat. So, okay.

So I have one. Someone said, I'm currently working in clinical research, data management, and I also have experience in pharmacovigilance or PV. I'm very interested in transitioning into the MSL role. What steps do you recommend I take to make a successful transition? So I think the the way that we can not only answer this person's question, but we can also make it a a larger question is, you know, they already have some industry experience.

So they understand the pharmaceutical industry. They understand kind of the ins and outs of, you know, cross functional collaboration likely. But how can they use that to their advantage to make a successful transition to an MSL? And as a background, they are a pharmacist. Yeah.

Yeah. And, Swathi, I'd really be curious to to hear, kind of your thoughts on this as well. You. And indeed. I've yeah.

I and if you wanna go first, you can go I'll let you kinda answer that first, and then I can kinda go back to my thought. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I I can start.

So what I would say is that, you know, because you already have some industry connections or some industry related or specific experience, I would look to and network with some of the people you've either previously worked with or maybe currently work with. Because at the end of the day, you can apply to so many jobs, and a lot of people do land MSL jobs just from applying to an open position on LinkedIn or on, you know, let's say, the BMS website or something. But I do think that a lot of it comes down to especially when you're applying, there could be, like, hundreds of applications for one position. And a lot of people get really disheartened, like, oh, I applied to 50 jobs, 80 jobs, and I haven't even gotten one callback. But oftentimes, a lot of the people in in the stack, not everyone, but a lot of the people in the stack of applications are qualified for the role.

So at the end of the day, how else are they standing out? They likely have some sort of internal referral. And so a lot of companies, not every company, but a lot of companies will have the system where, you know, if you know someone internally, then they can submit your name and maybe even submit your resume. And then your application, you know, at least will be looked at all the things. Whether or not that means you'll get to the next step or, you know, get the role is a different story, but at least you'll get past the hundreds and maybe get in the top 20 to have one call with the hiring manager or something.

So I think if you already have some industry connections, this is your moment to network within. But, also, likely, these other industry connections, no other industry people. So as much as you can connect with them after you end let's say you're speaking with someone on the PV team or the pharmacovigilance team from when you worked with them. You know, I would say, you know, I really, really wanna make this transition. Who else could you recommend in your network that I speak to?

And just getting even one warm intro or warm in warm, I guess, intro, yeah, like, from LinkedIn. Like, ask them to make an intro via LinkedIn or via text, and then you are building your network. And you never know. Maybe at that time, you're speaking at you know, with someone at a company. They don't have anything open right now, but they'll have you in the back of their mind, especially as you're doing outreach, and you're doing follow-up with them.

That maybe in six months, they'll have something available. Or maybe in two months, they hear on on their team meeting that a new position is about to get posted. If anyone knows anyone, you know, it'd be great to, you know, hire someone more simply, then, you know, put the posting up there and and everything and sift through such a huge list of applications. So I think a lot of it really comes down to networking. And since you already have those industry connections, that would be an awesome first step, and to leverage those.

Another thing so I I mentioned a lot of the networking so far about online. But if you were in the industry space, you might be going to DIA or, like, any of these other massive conferences, or maybe they're not as massive, but their conference is related to the therapeutic area that you're interested in or currently working or perhaps wanna stay in. Then you could even go to conferences in person. And as much as you're there to, you know, be a PV specialist for your team. You also could be there making connections for your future.

And, as much as it's important to have those networking connections, it's also important to I just keep a spreadsheet. I know people are a bit more fancy about it, but I just keep, like, a spreadsheet of, like, oh, okay. Like, the last time I talked to them was three months ago. I'll just send a quick note just to, like, stay top of mind, particularly for people who may have mentioned that, oh, a role might be coming up. I'll make that note in my spreadsheet.

Or if it's you know, they don't have anything coming up, but I really, really, really wanna work there, then I will just keep them in my in my rotation. Beth, anything to add? You captured so much. Like like, every everything you said, I'm I'm in full agreement with. And I love that you mentioned too, like, just kind of keeping, keeping that spreadsheet and keeping in touch with people throughout.

I would say that's even important even after you become an MSO. You know? Keep those connections open, stay in touch with people, not just necessarily when you, you know, are looking for a job or need some, but just keep, you know, keep those touch points there, so you can stay kind of top of mind for people. So, yeah, fully agree with with everything you said. One thing I'll add to something that was helpful to me in in my job search.

So I did and this doesn't always work, right, admittedly, but I figure it can't hurt. So, you know, I did reach out when I would see a job. I oftentimes reach out to the hiring manager and to the recruiter on LinkedIn, and it just sent them a message just saying, hey. And would you be open to a conversation? And, you know, a handful of times they were.

I did have instances where people didn't respond or anything, but I will say some of them were they were helpful and they, you know, it was fruitful for me to reach out, and that got me kind of a direct line of communication, with either the recruiter or the hiring manager. Again, sometimes just to have a conversation. Not obviously, didn't get all of those jobs where I reached out. Right? But at least got a line of communication and, you know, I would in their mind.

So I would just add that in as well. I would add another layer to that too. So I love the idea of doing the direct message, you know, on LinkedIn, to the hiring manager. And the way that like, if you're wondering who the hiring manager is, like, oftentimes on the application, it doesn't say it. But what you can do is go to the company, the company, their LinkedIn page, and go under people.

And then right under people, there's a search bar. And so I would look at, you know, like, VP of medical affairs or, you know, medical science liaison director or something and see who the hiring manager is. Oftentimes, you can kind of play, like, detective in that way, and you can find the hiring manager. The other way to do it is, let's say, maybe you're just starting off the process and, like, at least in the beginning for me, I was, like, a little nervous maybe to just full on high just, you know, go to the hiring manager directly. Another method, you could do both or, like, one or the other, is you could go to someone else on the team.

Let's say you're also you're you're messaging, like, an MSL on the team who might be in a different region or maybe even, like, a different therapeutic area. But it's also great to connect with them because they could either do the internal referral thing that I mentioned, or they could just, you know, like, actually tell you how it is and how the experience has been at the company. Because each company is kind of its its own world, its own, like, bubble. And as you transition from company to company, each one functions so differently, whether it is contributing to the fact that, you know, this is an American company versus a French company versus a Japanese company or even, like, you know, the way that the company might be, like, remote first versus, like, having their, you know, back to office. It's like the culture of each company is so different.

So even as you're applying to get a little bit of background, people are willing to hop on a call with you is super helpful. And if people are willing to hop on a call with you, you better be so unbelievably productive with your time. I think come with a list of questions. Understand that if you ask for fifteen minutes, that it will be fifteen minutes and be respectful of their time. Maybe if you ask for thirty, that's awesome.

But think about how many questions you can fit in in that time to make the most out of that time because they are very, very busy just as all of us are are busy as well. Yeah. You said a word there, Swathi. Because so many of and I I have to say, like, there were several MSLs that gave me some of their time, during my job search, and I was so thankful for that just to and like you said, being prepared was key, respecting their time and and really asking some impactful questions. So great.

I love what you said. Great point. Amazing. Yeah. So and then we do have, another another few questions that popped up in the chat.

So can you talk about how you manage balancing the travel with family and personal life, and how often are you away from home? So before I turn that question over to you, Beth, I do just wanna state that everyone's experience is gonna be super different depending on the company, depending on the therapeutic area, particularly depending on the size of the company as well. Like, if you work for a massive multinational company, your region might literally be like West Philadelphia. You know? So it might be that small where, like, you are responsible for, you know, going and meeting all of these key opinion leaders and health care providers, but you might not be actually away from home more than, like, four or five hours a day.

Right? Or there might be some days where you're fully doing an admin day versus, like, going out all around West Philly, versus, like, if you work for and that's generally for, like, a very large company. If you work for a very small company or a smaller company, your region might literally be the entire Midwest. And so in one week, you could be in Minneapolis, and then you could then be in, you know, Barrington, Arkansas. I don't even know if that's a real place.

I think but either way, you know, you could be in, like, all these different states in a span of just a few days. So if that is something that's important to you of, like, oh, I really want the MSL drop, but I don't wanna travel too much, I would look for larger companies that have smaller regions. That's something to keep in mind. There also is this newer thing called a virtual MSL MSL where there are where there are some companies, oftentimes, it ends up being smaller companies with smaller budgets, where they're like, you know, how much KOL engagement can you do virtually? And maybe, you know, your region is all of the East Coast or it's all of the Southeast or some, like, larger again, like the Midwest, like a larger region, but you're actually doing a lot of these interactions and follow ups and everything virtually.

And maybe not all of it's virtual, but maybe there's more of a focus at that company for virtual. And then instead, you do kind of like a roadshow where you're gone for, like, two weeks in Massachusetts, and you just make the most of that two weeks kind of a thing. So I just wanted to preface, that's response with her experience that it could really vary company by company. But but take it away, Beth. Yeah.

No. Those are great points. I love that you kind of set that set the stage for that before before, I jumped in here. But I will say one thing to keep in mind for I I'll say for my situation is that, I'm still in my first year as an MSL. So you do have to kind of take that in in mind and the first three months.

And I think this is a pretty consistent experience across most companies. The first three months or so are spent just onboarding. Right? And and training. So have have really kind of been out of training, post training for about six months now, like, for me.

So I'm still learning and kind of navigating, my territory and figuring out what my travel kind of on a long term basis will look like. So I can't really give a figure right now for what, you know, what that will look like on a regular basis. What I will say is this, thus far, when I do travel and I I'll I'll say for me what what really worked, I had a conversation, with my family before taking the role, right, so that every, you know, everyone was kind of on the same page about what the role entailed, many times in the job description there will be a sort of a percentage. You know, maybe it'll say up to 60% travel or up to 80% travel. And, you know, you can kinda use that to sort of gauge what what what it might look like for you.

And as Swathi mentioned, it depends on how many states you cover, how big those states are, you know, what those states look like. I myself covered two states. So I kind of anticipate, and that's sort of been my, kind of my experience thus far that I'll be driving a lot and I I don't mind driving. So, you know, for me, you know, I don't I don't mind making, like, kind of a four or five hour trip and then, you know, kind of coming back. But again, that's personal.

Right? But I think just having that conversation with your family beforehand, really looking and knowing what getting a good picture from the job description, from your conversations with your interviewers of what that's really gonna look like, that can give you a little bit more insight. And as far as for balance, I mean, I think that, again, it goes back to conversations with your family and also figuring out sort of that system that I mentioned earlier. You know, that and that takes some learning. I'm I would say admittedly, I'm still kind of figuring that out, you know, what's the best way to still squeeze in, you know, taking care of, of myself, exercising, working out, eating healthfully.

I think that's a learning experience, but you through trial and error, I think you, you know, you kind of you kind of figure it out, and it's good if you have if if you do have that support at home, that just makes it, you know, kind of makes it even easier to to do that, to balance that. Definitely. And it comes down to personal preference of, like, what are you comfortable with and what sort of kind of lifestyle are you interested in. And what you'll hear from a lot of MSLs is that oftentimes, this is it's kind of like build your own adventure in a way Mhmm. Of, like, you have to kind of be your own boss.

Of course, you have a boss, and depending on the company, you might interface with them weekly. But I I also know MSLs that have, like, a monthly sync, and then they do everything else asynchronously with their boss because maybe their boss has, like, you know, 25 direct reports or something, so they can't really budget in a weekly for everyone. So Mhmm. It is a very autonomous role where you need to hit your KPIs and all of that. But at the end of the day, like, you get to set your own schedule, and I think that is, like, within reason, of course.

There are certain conferences that you have to really put around the KOL's availability and things like that, of course, but there is an element of autonomy that I think that you don't necessarily have with a lot of different roles. And in that way, you're kind of a self starter and, in a way, kind of an entrepreneur in that way. So if that's something that excites you, then I think, you know, being an MSL is really an awesome fit. And so far, everyone I see who's who's tuned in has, you know, a health care background, has a PhD, and, like, has the on paper, you know, would be a an awesome fit for the role. So, so great questions so far.

This time is flying by. So if you have any additional do not hesitate to put them in the chat. I will continue to monitor the chat. And in the meantime, I will continue to ask, you know, my question. So, you know, as I think most of the people who are, listening in or will watch the recording, you know, what is one thing about the MSL role that you think more aspiring MSL should know?

I love this question because I wish that I knew this. So I will I would say to anyone who is aspiring, please know that and this is something I've heard consistently from more experienced MSL to kind of help encourage you, and it it's an encouragement for me too, that it can take up to, like, twelve to eighteen months for you to really feel comfortable in the role. So I know that many of us who particularly if you come from maybe a health care background, you and you all can maybe let Swathi know in the chat if you agree but you may have more of that sort of kind of perfectionist tendency that like I do, right, and and it's good we're all you know we all want to do well, we all want to do a great job, but I think one thing that can really encourage you and go into it knowing that is that everyone feels like they don't know what they're doing. You know, they're kind of wondering, like, oh my gosh, am I doing this right? I don't know how will I get all this information together.

So just I I that's one thing I wish that I knew and that's something that I would say to inspiring in myself to encourage you. If you can go into it knowing that, hey, this is gonna be a learning process. I'm gonna embrace this. You know, things may feel you know, I may struggle with maybe, imposter syndrome or, you know, for those, those first, twelve to eighteen months before I feel like I've kind of fully stepped into the role and I fully grasped everything that I need to grasp. But just know that twelve to eighteen months is what I hear, and I can say, for myself, you know, that is seeming to to kind of align with with what I'm experiencing.

But just be open to learning, give yourself grace, ask so many questions. Right? You know, and and just open be be open to that process and trust the process. You know, you will get training, and you will you will as time goes forward, you keep learning, you keep kind of iterating your story and how you how you, explain the data. And it, you know, it it will it will get better.

It will, you know, you will tweak it, and you will feel you will get to a point where you feel, you know, more confident, right, in in in the role as an MSO. I think that was one of the biggest learnings for me is when I found out that people that, you know, I look up to that even they said, like, I'm just figuring it out every day. And the kind of it's it's not crude, but, like, one of the things that just brings me a lot of, like, calmness is, you know, everybody poops. Like, at the end of the day, everyone's just figuring it out. Everyone has the same struggles, and everyone is just a human.

So we're all just trying to figure it out. And, like, the combination of what you said plus my my weird statement is, like, it's just it may it's made me feel so much better and, like, if they can figure it out, I can figure it out, and we're all just trying to figure it out together. Yes. Mhmm. Exactly.

Exactly. I love that. Everybody poops. I think there's actually a book out there called that, so I I didn't coin it or anything, but I I do think that's such a good context. Yeah.

Mhmm. Okay. Great. And then so what would you say to someone who is either a health care professional or a scientist, an academic researcher? So pretty much the majority of people who are listening now.

So they're in clinical care or they are in research, they're PhD, who says, you know, they don't believe that they can land an MSL role because they don't feel like they have the a strong enough resume. Like, what would you say to them? Yeah. And that I I have to repeat some of the things I already said, and I'll add a little bit to that. But I would say, if you are if you are out there in those backgrounds that that Swathi just named, you know that you've already done hard things, right, you think reflect on that and and remember that, remember what it took you to get your PhD, right, remember what it took you to get your Pharm.

B, remember what it took you to get your, nurse practitioner, like, you know, all these things. So you've already done hard things, and you have to do, whether you realize it or not, you have to do a lot of the things to get those things that you're having to do to get in the MSL role, and then subsequently to succeed in the MSL role. So I would say really reflect on that and encourage yourself with that. The other thing that I would say is is be consistent. Right?

Like, just know that this likely it could be, and I I hope it is for me, you know, but likely, this may not be an overnight process. So, I mean, I think kind of being aware of that, going into it knowing that that this this likely will not be an overnight process. But if you stay consistent and you keep kind of, sort of iterating and and and learning after each application, after each interview, taking that time to reflect on what worked, what didn't work. Another thing to keep in mind is seeking help if you need it. And that could be in the form of what we mentioned earlier, reaching out to people on LinkedIn or or however, you know, whatever channel that may be, people with similar backgrounds to see what steps did they take.

Right? What you know, their career trajectory looks kind of similar to mine. So let me see what they did. What were some things that were helpful to them? What works for them?

You know, seeking out those informational interviews as much as you can. And then, of course, if you have the resources to do so, you also, you know, seek help. I I did from The MSL Academy™. I think it can be a, you know, it can be a a great resource, to really kinda help you if you're feeling stuck in that search. So those would be some of the the things that I would I would say to to encourage you if you're feeling like you're not going to be able to to land the role.

Yeah. Incredible. And I would also say one of the things that I learned early on from from a, a mentor was, you know, as I went through the process, whether it was an MSL role, another role, I would always ask for feedback after the interview, particularly when I did not get the role, is you know, you always send that follow-up email and everything thanking them. And then if, you know, you don't get the role, then the next step is, okay. Great.

Thank you so much for letting me know. Sometimes they don't let you know. But if they do have the courtesy of letting you know, then I always respond with, okay. Great. Thank you so much.

Like, what could I do for next time? Or, you know, like, what could I have improved upon to help you make this decision? Like, anything like that where you can use every single experience with interviewing as a learning process. And that's not how I viewed it in the beginning. I'll be honest.

Think it quickly in the beginning. But, you know, as you go through it, you realize, oh my gosh. Every single interview I did was better than the last one because your feedback, maybe you were prepping with a mentor, maybe prepping with the academy, and and figuring out, like, exactly how to, again, as you said, hone in your story and get your elevator pitch down, have the right materials, and just do better every single time. And I I think just as much as it's a part of the interview process, as you mentioned, Beth, it's also something that's going to help you succeed in the MSL role too. Mhmm.

Oh, definitely. I just had this conversation with a colleague last week because we're talking about the importance of kind of that debrief after a KOL interaction. So I, you know, I always do that just even if it's and it was so funny because I said I I debriefed with myself. Right? Like, whether whether it's a colleague in the interaction with me or not, but I'm debriefing with myself to kind of think about, hey.

What did I do? What worked? What did the KOL seem to respond to? Respond to? What are some things that maybe I can think about carrying over into our next interaction to make it, you know, even more impactful?

So to your point, yes, that is the something that you will continue to to apply and and do even once you get in the role. And for KOL interactions, it's just as important to think about, okay, for the science, what resonated, but also, like, what did we talk about in small talk? Like, that's something that I'm going to do is, like, also okay. Like, did his, you know, daughter just graduate from college? Did, you know, her son just win a lacrosse tournament?

Like, that like, just writing down a few of those things or maybe they're headed out of town to a vacation in Cancun, and then you can follow-up with her after about it. Right? So there's other things like that where it's not just about the science even though that's, of course, like, likely everyone on here's favorite thing. It's also about just creating that relationship, like, that real relationship and asking about not just patients and not just about their practice, but also about, you know, things that are not related to to work. I love that.

Emotional intelligence. Right? And so when you think about it in that way too, I think that can be helpful for people to really think about how they're, again, already using those skills. Like you, you know, you, you have to do that especially I'll just speak to the kind of pharmacist part because that is my background, but we do that every day and you know community pharmacy, we especially, you know, we, we do that every single day, so just that human, that human piece of it. I love how you you call that out.

K. Great. So we have a few minutes left. If anyone has any, last minute questions, please feel free to put them in the chat. If any questions come up later, you can email oh, maybe I should add my email here just so you all can, yeah, let me put it in the in my name here.

Just so you all can contact me as well, it is [email protected]. Yeah. I just put it in my my subtitle there. So, yeah, if you do have any questions, please feel free to reach out after, and we also still have a few minutes. We're here till 09:00 eastern, five, 05:00 Pacific.

So just one question from me to end on. You know, if you could go back in time as you were going through the interview process and just the whole transitioning process from what you're doing before in in medical device and even being a pharmacist before that to becoming an MSL. What is, like, one piece of advice or something that I kind of already asked something you wish you knew, but what is a piece of advice you'd give yourself or, you know, anyone else, on the call who's looking to make that transition too? I would say I would tell myself trust the process. I I really, really because I see now that every single experience that I had in my career built on the the previous one, built on it, built on it, built on it.

And now all of those experience experiences together have made me ready and prepared for this MSO role that I have now. So I would I would really encourage myself with that, that, like, every kind of new experience, every new job that I took on, I learned something and I took something from that. And I'm actually using it now, you know, and I'm realizing that. So I would say just trust trust the process. Don't, don't don't get easily discouraged.

You know, things if the kind of the role that you may be aiming for that maybe if maybe that's not the first role that you get. Right? There may be another kind of another path or another trajectory that you take, and it's not linear. Right? It may not be it may not be linear.

You know? You may explore some other things on the on the way to to the role that you ultimately want. So I would just say I would encourage myself with that. No experience has been wasted. No experience was wasted, and just trust the process.

Absolutely. I I would second that, and that's something I've learned along the way as well, you know, to be, you know, open and and vulnerable. You know, when I went was going through the process, like, I thought I wanted to do a role in the pharmaceutical industry right out of pharmacy school, went through the you know, for those of you who are familiar, for those of you who are not, don't worry about it. But for those of you who are familiar, there's a big, like, kind of fellowship process after pharmacy school and you, you know, go to midyear, which is this massive pharmacy conference. I think it's the biggest conference in America, if not, if not the world or at least North America, for a pharmacist.

So you go to this conference and you do a bunch of in person interviews at, you know, the top companies to land a postdoctoral fellowship program. They could be one year, two years long, and most people catapult their career from there to, you know, become an MSL or get a full time position in industry. And that is something that I always thought I wanted. I got my full CV ready. All of pharmacy school had industry internships and clinical rotations and you name it.

I did, you know, like, bench research, clinical research, like, a pharma sponsored research trial I was a part of. Anyways, I did a lot of things and was super interested and was like oh, I was also on the national board of a pharmacy organization. Anyways, was trying to set myself up for, you know, the best possible way that I could. I get to this process, and I get to the final stage of four different companies. I get flown out to these companies, and I landed nothing.

And I was like, oh, wow. Does this mean, like, this is not the right path for me? And I got so discouraged because online on LinkedIn or on social media, you see, like you only see, like, what people are doing now. But very infrequently do we actually go through the list of things people have done prior that have led them to that? And even more infrequently, do we actually hop on a call with them and hear their story or, you know, find something online where it's like they've been interviewed somewhere to actually understand their background.

And so if I had just taken that as like, oh, I guess, like, pharmaceutical industry or biotech is not for me, then, you know, I would've, you know, been in I would be in a different place right now. But because I didn't, I decided to do a residency. And then after that, I did end up landing a fellowship. So I took a different route, but it did end up working out when the time was right, the circumstance was right, and the company and the fit was right. Like, the therapeutic area I ended up in was exactly what I was interested in.

But at the time, there were very few roles that I was applying to where I didn't end up landing something. There was almost nothing in that therapeutic area that I was interviewing for. But I was like, oh, it's fine. It's a stepping stone. So everything right?

Like, the way it's supposed to. And Mhmm. Because that residency that set me up to be an amazing fit for the fellowship, which now has set me up to, like, work in this very specialized niche. And I wouldn't have had it any other way, but you just have to view each opportunity as a learning experience. And even from all those interviews when I got to the last round, didn't land anything, I learned so much about myself, but also, like, what it takes to do well on an interview and the importance of of feedback.

Yeah. I love that. Quite a journey. Yeah. It's oh, there there's more to it, but then that's the the spark version for for today with our one minute remaining.

So yeah. Okay. So amazing. Thank you so much to everyone who joined live, and thank you in advance to everyone who's, you know, watching the recording. If you'd like to learn more about, you know, transitioning into becoming an MSL and you'd like some support with that, you can go to the themslacademy.com, or you can just email me.

I actually put my email, in the in the description here. So it's [email protected]. Please feel free to connect with with both of us on LinkedIn. And if there's anything we can do to help, definitely let us know. Alrighty.

Well, have a good night. Bye bye. Yes. Thank you.

Watch the full video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at_CK3Jrk38