Breaking Into the MSL Role by The MSL Academy™ - Episode 5 with Dr. Hubert Sindjui

Alright. Welcome, everyone, to another episode of office hours with Dr. Swathi. I'm here on behalf of The MSL Academy™, and our goal is to help aspiring MSLs and current MSLs excel in their careers. So today, we are joined by Dr. Hubert, and we'd love to just hand it right over to you so you can introduce yourself and let everyone know a little bit about your background. Okay.

Thank you, Swathi. And I wanna thank and welcome everyone here. My headset's not working, so I don't need that. So my name is Hubert Sindjui. I'm a PharmD, currently working as an a senior medical science liaison for a pharma company.

So I am thrilled to be here with you all. I look forward to a successful conversation, and back to you, Swathi. Yes. Amazing. Thank you so much for the, the, you know, intro.

So would love to ask you next, you know, how did you first hear about the MSL role? Thanks for that question, Swathi. And I heard about this role actually in such an unconventional way. I went to pharmacy school back in 02/2009. I'm a 02/2013 graduate, and I've as many pharmacists or the majority of pharmacists, I started a career in community pharmacy, where I worked for five years then moved into clinical pharmacy and then also ambulatory care.

And an MSL that used to come to my pharmacy and talk with me and try to, you know, provide information about a product came to me one day, and, you know, we've have been seeing each other for almost a year. And then she say, so, Hubert, why are you here? And I say, what do you mean why am I here? And she say, I think you could be a good MSRO. I say, what is MSRO?

She say, that's what I'm doing. That's what I've been coming here for. So I was not curious, surprisingly, to know her position, what, you know, the role she was she was on when she came to see me as a foundee trying to inform me about a product, about how it works, safety compared to other products. And at that point, I was like, okay. Tell me more about it.

And that's how I learned about MSL. So I was in my job, doing my job, loving what I did until I heard about MSL, and I was like, I need to look into this. Yes. Amazing. And so as you learned more about the role, what was it about the MSL role that helped you decide, you know what?

I'm ready to leave clinical pharmacy to do something completely different. There's so many things to say about the MSL role that, differentiate that separates this role from the other conventional pharmacy roles. But if I had to pick one reason that created that moment for me is the quality of life balance. As an MSL, in most company, you are an independent employee. Basically, you create your schedule around your life.

You for someone raising four kids like me, that that to me was the the moment. I could create my own schedule. I could, work independently at home, from home, meet people at my own time. And quite frankly, I had that kind of peer to peer discussion with specialists because MSL means, not just, general prescriber and so on. They meet specialists.

So you you you basically talking with the the the the the smartest people in the medical field, and those two things basically, made me say this is this is where I wanna be. Amazing. So you started talking about it a little bit, but would love to hear, you know, four people who are joining us who maybe they've heard the term medical science liaison. They've heard the acronym, but they don't actually really know what the role entails. Could you tell everyone how you would define, you know, being an MSL and and what that means?

Being an MSL, in other words, is just being a pharmacist, you are an expert in, you know, medication safety, medication information, everything around medication. Being an MSL, I think, to me, is a notch is a notch up. You are now being an expert in a very specific field or on a very specific product. And, I explained that this way. When I first came into into medical science liaison into the pharma industry, my first job was, MSL for a company that produced HIV medicines.

So, mind you, in pharmacy school, that is that's the last thing I wanted to hear about HIV medicines. So working in the field, being, an MSL for a company that made a % HIV medicine, I was forced to learn about HIV, learn about the medicines, learn about the competitors' products, and learn everything. Because when you go to a doctor, you basically are the brain of that therapeutic area or of the product that you are trying to sell to the doctor or I didn't mean to use the word sell, but the product you're trying to promote. As an MSL, you the the one thing that is different from being a general pharmacist is that you are focused on one specific either disease state or products, and you are basically the expert for that product or disease states. So, if you think about it this way, being in for HIV for five years, although I I didn't like HIV in pharmacy school, I come I think I behave I think I'm a expert in h a in the HIV field at this time.

And now I moved out of HIV because I wanted to know another area. And when you're dispensing medicine in a pharmacy or at a clinical at a clinical pharmacy in a hospital, oh, you think you know a lot. That's true. You know a lot. But as an expert or as a MSL, think about it.

You're focusing on that one product every day of your life, and you have people live in companies for twenty years. So do you think they know that product? Yes. Do you think they still know they need to know more about it? Yes.

So there's a lot a lot lot more to know about medicine than even pharmacists think. And being a medical cell gives you that opportunity to actually deep dive into whichever therapeutic area or product you are in to actually comment and be the expert of that specific medicine or therapeutic area. Yeah. That's a great description. And so now that you had decided, you know, we're going back in the future.

Right? So you are a clinical pharmacist. You learned about the role, and, you know, now you have decided that you wanna take that next step to break into the industry. So what were some of the first steps you took, and what was the outcome? The first step I took, and I and I can imagine most people here have done that, is that I went on LinkedIn and applied on all the MSL jobs that I saw, you know, coming up in my feed.

So that was my first step. Once I learned about the job, I googled it. I saw how, you know, independent people were working on as MSL. I saw the the the salaries, the compared to my salary. I saw the life the good the quality life balance as I talked to more and more MSOs.

I started applying. I applied for about, I would say, two years, not one response. And finally, I met, an amazing person, doctor Sidonimibe. It's not a secret. She has worked a lot to to bring to to help people learn about this role and actually, apply for those role.

And, basically, I I connected with her, and I'm one of the first carrier of this program, The MSL Academy™ So I registered for this program as soon as I learned about it because I was already very interested and informed about the MSL role. So I as soon as I learned about, the The MSL Academy™, I've registered for it. I worked very hard, to graduate out of it. And as soon as I graduated out of the academy program, I totally understood immediately why after two years of applying, no one contacted me back.

I was doing it all wrong. So this process has has helped me, understand how to apply for the MSL job, understand the MSL role, and I I I I would say confidently, I aced it on my my interviews. Wow. Amazing. And so, you know, what do you think The MSL Academy™ has over other programs that you may have considered?

Like, why this one? Like, why do you think it was so successful? Was it the was it the course content? Was it the mentorship? Like, what was it?

I will I will be honest, that, I could be biased answering this question, because I'm a graduate I mean, I'm a proud graduate of this program. But it was it's it's an it's an all rounded project or program. The first thing that The MSL Academy™ has over all the other, program that I've seen so far is that it's done by pharmacist. And, most of the pharmacists that are actually coaching, mentoring people through this academy are previous or, past graduate of the academy. So as people have come to this program and graduated from from it, this program has reached out to them, and some of them has have accepted to come back and give back to all the pharmacists that that are interested in becoming MSRs.

So the first thing is that it's a program by people that have gone through the program that are pharmacists, that have been pharmacists in whatever, area you are in now and trying to come into the MSRs. You name it, community pharmacy, hospital pharmacy, government pharmacy. The the the the mentors, the the preceptors are all from those areas of pharmacies that you are in. So if this doesn't convince you, I don't know what else will convince you. This is program made by people that been to the program, done it, love it, and, I'm back to to to to help you all go through it as well.

Amazing. And one of the things you mentioned as you were learning more about the role is networking and that you were reaching out to MSLs and speaking to them. Can you talk a little bit more about how networking has influenced your career path? Yes. So, and this this question hits me in the in the, in the heart because, I've been on both side.

Right? I as a community pharmacy or even clinical pharmacy, I never had the opportunity to travel or even to meet through my job. I went in and clocked in, at seven, eight, or 9AM, clocked out after twelve hours even though I was being paid eight or ten. So, basically, I was in that box, in that bubble, closed bubble. The MSL job and this is my second MSL job I'm holding now.

You get at least, three, four opportunities to travel to conferences around the country in in in both jobs I held. And those opportunities, I mean, talk about I just came from an endo meeting, last year where there were over 20,000 providers. I went to HIV, conferences where there were 15,000 HIV experts, attending a conference. So think about the opportunity this gives you as a person, as a professional, as a I don't know. You name it.

So and not only that. Even in the community, now you have time to plan things. You are, again, meeting people on your own schedule on your own time. I get to get to conferences for pharmacist organizations, of my, of my origins. I go every year because I can plan.

I I choose when I take my vacation. There's no discussion about that. Most companies, MSR, take vacations when they want to. Some companies even give you, unlimited vacation time, basically. When I heard that first time, I couldn't believe it, but true.

You just go. You just tell your supervisor, I need some time off and go. So all that gives you time to do what? To network with your professional, friends, family in the community. Network with professionals, friends, family on LinkedIn, wherever you want.

So networking is, is a no brainer when you're, an MSL. I have MSL friends that are on LinkedIn twenty four seven because they love it. I I am not on LinkedIn twenty four seven, but, if that's what you like, if that's what you you love, networking with professionals, MSL is the is the place to be. Great. Yeah.

And I do see a question in the chat. So, I think I pronounce it Desiree. So, how much is The MSL Academy™ and how do you apply? So you can go to the mslacademy.com to check out some of our programs and our services. And in terms of application, we have a discovery call, so you can sign up for a discovery call.

We also have a free master class, so you can do the free master class. So please check that out. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to direct message Hubert or myself, and we're happy to provide you more, information. And thank you for the the question in the chat overall. So if anyone else has any other questions, this is meant to be interactive.

So any questions that you have for either of us about the MSL role and, I mean, I have a full list over here, and I'm gonna continue if I don't see anything else on the chat. But, if anyone else has any other questions about what it's like to transition and break into the MSL career and and excel at it, please do not hesitate to put it in the chat. Alrighty. So the next question I wanted to ask was, how does that transition from being a clinical pharmacist, you know, clocking in, clocking out, working twelve hour shifts. What was the transition like, from going from that to the MSL role?

I would say it was the transition was not easy. Not easy in the sense that, habits breaking habits. Right? And I will say this in a funny way. In most companies, they'll give you a mentor when when you first hired.

And, one day, I was just chat chatting with my mentor because a mentor is there for you to ask questions that you don't necessarily need to go to the relationship with. So it's a peer. It's a it's an horizontal peer. And, one day, I I I call my mentor and say, wow. This this, this whole week, I don't have anything of my on my calendar.

I'm freaking out. What do I need to do? I I I'm not sure what to do. And I never forget what she told me. She say, never tell people what you do when you're an MSL.

Never tell people. So I came through that education or a professional mindset that I had to tell my supervisor each time what I was doing. He had to check over my shoulders. I had to report. And if, even if I'm not asked to report, I have to show that I'm doing something because I used to get calls, how many position did you do today?

And I used to expect those calls, and I'll be thinking if I'm below what I'm supposed to do and so forth. So in the MS level, it took me time to understand that I was really on my own. On your my own I mean, in that I did not have to report to somebody, but I was the one to create my own schedule, manage it, and make it happen. So if you are not a self starter, this can be difficult to you. But, unfortunately for me, I am a self starter.

I just came from a mindset that I had to to explain every things I was doing. But I find myself in a situation that way I do things, and it shows itself. If you actually do something, you don't need to tell people you are doing it. So, in my sixth year of of MSL, now I understand that your supervisor is there to check-in once a week, once a month just to, you know, make sure you have everything you need to do your job. And it's not there to for you to everyday go to him and say, oh, I need a pen.

I need a no. You get a credit card. If you need something for your work, you go get it. You don't ask anybody. If you need some so you gotta be a self starter.

You gotta be a, a a mature person. You'll get be somebody that is understanding the responsibility that is placed on in you and act on it. And it's very important when you come in as an MSL. Yes. Great.

And so, yeah, to go back to the chat. So, yes, Desiree, there is a fee for the academy. Please go to the mslacademy.com, and you'll see the different programs and services that we have there. Again, if you have any, questions more specific to the The MSL Academy™ itself, please do not hesitate to direct message me or or Hubert. Okay.

So then we have another question in the chat. Any tips for MPs trying to get into the MSL position? Do you work with any MPs right now? No. But in my previous company, yes.

So MPs are professionals, and, let me just tell you this. So if you go on LinkedIn, generally, the job the job posting will tell you the diploma or the degrees that are required for that job. Trust that. If the your diploma is not required, it's not listed on the the diplomas or degrees that are required, Please don't waste your time applying. It's it's it's extremely, extremely selective.

But I've seen jobs that hire MPs. And, again, in my previous job, we had MPs. They were not MSL. They were medic community community medical liaison. So they were in charge of going and educating patients and providers how to we designed a we we brought on the market one of the most popular HIV drug, Carbonuva.

So our community medical liaison were hired to go teach, clinical, community centers how to inject Carbonuva because it takes it uses a a z track technique, a very specific technique to inject it safely and effectively. So in my current job, no. But in my previous job, yes. Your best place to to check is, on that job, in on that job advertisement. So I'll add another dimension to that.

Generally, when I look at job descriptions, I look at them as just recommendations. So, it's like, let's say, a role is posted. So I'm a pharmacist by trade. If a role is posted and it says, you know, physician, pharmacist by trade. If a role is posted and it says, you know, physician and PhD preferred or something like that, I will still apply, even though it's not, like, necessarily listed as their top priority.

Because at the end of the day, what they wanna understand, they being the hiring managers, is, you know, are you equipped with the acumen to break down complicated information and convey it to an audience, speak to health care providers on a peer to peer kind of level, and be able to present information, whether that's presenting to the HCPs one on one or presenting that information, you know, at a conference, for example. And are you able to create those long standing relationships? I mean, depending on the company, you might be entering a therapeutic area or a new product to market where there are no standing relationships, and you have to go start them all from scratch. So to me, it's more of, you know, are you able to demonstrate those transferable skills? And I've been a hiring manager before, so I think every hiring manager kind of thinks a little bit differently.

Some will be like, this is what the job description says, and therefore, we will not accept anyone else. Whereas, you know, I'm more interested in the transferable skills. And if it says, you know, MD or PhD preferred and I'm a PharmD or you're an NP, I would still suggest you apply if you are, you know, applying to a number of roles. And that being said, there are some MSL roles that specifically say, you know, NP, PA, PharmD, MD. So it's definitely not out of the question, and I wouldn't count yourself out.

But thanks for adding that, Swari. I I couldn't agree more. K. Amazing. So, you know, now that you've been in the MSL role for six years, incredible, I would love to hear, you know, some changes that you've seen, in the MSL role from being an MSL and now you're a senior MSL.

So what changes have you seen in the role or in medical affairs in general? How has it evolved? I would say, is the, I I'm not gonna describe any general trend or changes in the role in general, but, I had the advantage of working with two different companies. And quite frankly, it's not the same thing. Every company have a way to use their MSL.

Some company have bigger territories, some have smaller, and some companies give even more, I would say, independence to the MSL compared to others. So these are not really changes because I don't know about the the entire industry, but I'm seeing differences as you move, between companies. One important difference I can talk about is a difference between a small pharma company and a large pharma company. A small pharma company is you have companies either that have one product or two. That's it.

So the small company, they have 200, three hundred employees. Those company tend to, I would say pay more, give more, I would say give more in benefits compared to large company. Large company give you security. They pay, I would say, fairly high, but, you don't you don't get that much benefit in a large company because, I mean, it's like, you know, John Hopkins. If you wanna work at Johns Hopkins, most people know.

I I talk about Johns Hopkins because I live in the Baltimore. I live in the Maryland area. They don't pay that well, but they are the biggest one of the biggest institutes institution in America, maybe in the world. So that's exactly what you see in the MSL role. I've noticed that large companies, they they tend to pay more, but the benefits is a little a little smaller small companies pay, you know, less and and so forth.

And also the independence. And I say, again, small companies, you have one MSL director for three, four people. So you there's a lot more attention on that on on each MSL. I I'm working now with a company where my MSL director has 10 people. That's a lot of people.

He goes we go months without talking, and he's fine. I'm doing my job. If he wants to know what I'm doing, there's a place to go look what I'm doing. He he only comes to me when he has question. I go to him when I have questions.

We don't have to meet. We're doing the job. So, I would say, the difference lie into the company, the size, the company that you work in, sometimes, also, where the company is based. I heard European based company, they tend to act differently instead of giving Yeah. I I can speak to that.

Yeah. They act very differently if they're, like, a US company versus a, like, a French company or a German company. Definitely. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just, like, a very different culture of, like, okay.

We're gonna take off these different holidays. Mhmm. Like, different ideas about, like, taking time off and Yeah. It's just it's different cultures. Yeah.

That they're like their own worlds, really. Yeah. Mhmm. Bottom line is that the MSL job, I would say, you know, if I had to start over, I would take any MSL job as an in at an entry point. Why?

Because, again, it's a step away from the clocking in, the the, you know, the, the control. The I mean, you you you you have every company will give you at least the work life balance that you need as a professional to do your job. But, again, those differences and a lot of times are minimal. They balance off at the end. Yes.

Definitely. And we have an amazing question, in the chat. All the questions have been so good. So, one of them is is about the interview process and what the interview process is like. I know that this can differ from company to company, but can you speak a little bit about the interview process from your perspective?

And then I'm happy to add, my 2¢ as a hiring manager. Yes. So, the interview process, and I can speak about it because I went through it all at least twice now. No. More than twice because it's not all interviews I went through that worked out.

And Yes. It's a very specific process. But in in most companies will give you at least four interviews. You have a screening interviews with interview with HR. Sometimes it's not even the HR that give you that screening.

It's somebody, a third party, then you get to the HR, then you have an interview with the hiring manager, then you have an an interview with the, generally, the hiring manager and the other MSL directors that are on the team. So think about it when I talk about difference earlier. If you have a small company with only one MSL director, you're gonna only get one interview with the hiring manager, not the team. But and then at the end, you get a presentation interview. This is the time where you show people that you can convey.

You can convey. You can translate science to them, and most company will tell you choose a topic. Choose your topic. So you choose a topic that you are very comfortable in, so you can so you can shine. So the interview process, again, basically, is at least four is between three to five interviews.

Now depending on the company and depending on the needs, that those five interview can go can can take two months, and, other companies can take six. And, also, depending on the screening process. So, my the company I'm working with now, it took a month and a half only to go through four interviews. Very good. I wanted to hire, and I was also ready to move.

So, if you are a top candidate, they don't waste time. They move you up. They interview you the next day. The next day or the the same day, you get an email. You've been, you know, you've been moved up to the next interview.

And, again, I interviewed you the second time. The next day, I learned that I was being flown to Chicago for my presentation interview. I went there. I interviewed, and one week later, I got I got, I got a a letter of of, of approval. So the interview process, and I would say the one thing that you have on your side in this m MSL Academy is that The MSL Academy™ is with you all the way.

Each step, even on my second interview process, I came back to the MS Academy and seek help and seek mentorship. I want to be prepared for each of those interview because getting an MS, an interview is a big achievement. Blowing it up is on you, basically. So you do your best to be prepared. Get somebody else to look at what you're preparing on.

Get somebody else to do exactly what I'm doing now, to ask you questions, answer them, and, you know, read your body language, learn about, you know, where you you're struggling. I can I can talk audio about interview process, about how to prepare your questions and so on, but, I'm glad The MSL Academy™ is now to do that for you guys? But I would say my one one one word of wisdom is this is preparation, preparation, preparation. If you get one interview, invitation, you need to nail it down. Absolutely.

Yeah. And would love to hear, you know, your perspective on the and this was something I went through and learned the hard way as well. So I I'll give my 2¢. But what was your perspective on, you know, the scientific presentation and pick your own topic? Because, like, different hiring managers, some of them are like, they say pick your own topic, but they mean, you know, talk about a drug or something going on in this therapeutic area.

And then other ones are, you know, like, very much, like, choose your own topic for real. So would love to hear your perspective on that, and then I'll I'll add mine. Okay. So it goes two ways. So when I got my interview, from the HIV company I worked for, I chose a topic on HIV.

And I chose a topic on HIV because I was very comfortable. I was coming from a clinical pharmacist job when I where I was working as an HIV, clinical pharmacist. I was very comfortable with it. So and, when I was invited to this second interview, to the to the job I'm I I am now, I did not choose a topic in that area because it was the area was new to me, and I did not want to, embarrass myself. Because, yes, they're looking on how you can present, but you have to you have to be able to talk about the data.

And and, basically, you're teaching, a monkey how to how to eat bananas, basically. So my my take is if you are comfortable in the disease state, in the therapeutic area that you're interviewing in, choose it a topic, a topic that will make them feel good about you. That will show them that you know I mean, that you're coming in with something. Now if you are not sure, if you are not in that therapeutic area, choose somebody that you are comfortable in. I did not present for, thyroid eye disease.

I mean, thyroid eye disease now. I did not present on it, but I still got a job, and it was very, very highly competitive, this job. So I chose not to present on it. I never heard of thyroid eye disease before before, this job. So I was like, how am I gonna learn this and talk about it as an expert?

So you have to you have to know how to play these things. That's that's my take on it. Yeah. I mean, I I would fully agree. It's like you have to whatever you're gonna talk about, you have to be the expert on it.

And so sometimes, you know, the scientific presentation might be evaluate this clinical research paper and tell me about it, tell me what I need to know. Or it could be, you know, talk about any topic you want. Right? So it kind of just depends on how open ended the hiring manager or the team allows you, but definitely go in with confidence and be ready to answer a lot of questions. So I I would agree with with the majority of what you said.

And really it's let let let's say you're going into a therapeutic area that you've had no experience in. What you have to be able to demonstrate in the scientific presentation and in other parts of your interview is that even though I don't know about it now, I have all the skills and capability and curiosity, and I'm willing to to actually learn about it. And so that's what really has to come across is that being a self starter. Absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up.

But but also that curiosity and overall just interest in ongoing learning to stay on top of the trends and stay on top of, you know, what's going on in that therapeutic area to actually really benefit the KOLs that you're interacting with. Yeah. So definitely definitely would would agree and would add that little bit. I I do see a a great question as a follow-up in the chat. So how do you prepare for your presentation?

I can add 2¢ first. So what I would say for preparing for a presentation is, you know, that preparation aspect. How are you going to do it, though, is, you know, pretend that maybe it's your significant other, maybe it's your friends, maybe it's a mentor or fellow colleagues. But hop on a Zoom if it's gonna be virtual or if it's going to be in person. Present to them as though you would be presenting in the, in the actual scientific presentation part of the interview.

So, you know, go through it and do it exactly as how you would want to convey the information. I would say ideally present to people if it's a topic that let's say you're going for a job in HIV, but your therapeutic area of expertise at this point is metastatic breast cancer. Talk about metastatic breast cancer and present to someone who's not an expert in metastatic breast cancer to see if they are understanding what you're saying and if the way that you're articulating it is resonating with the audience. So that would be great. They can also probably help you figure out what sorts of questions based on the questions they're asking that might help you figure out, okay, what sorts of questions maybe will the audience be asking me, whether that's the panel or the hiring manager.

What I like to do, which is a little bit extra, but, you know, I've been called that before, is that, you know, with that preparation aspect and you figure out what are some of the top questions they might answer, create slides that answer those questions that are after the thank you slide. So just in case they ask those, you can flip to them, and it makes you look really prepared. And they're just as a backup. No one might ask you those questions, but you've done that level of preparation that it makes you look like, wow. Yes.

I've thought through exactly how this would go. And, again, this is the way that they're going to think about if they're gonna put you in the field to represent the company. This is a demonstration of what you would do when you're presenting to a KOL or presenting to a health care provider in your region or in your area is that you are gonna come that prepared thinking ahead to what sorts of questions are going to be asked. And then you not only are prepared with the answer, you're prepared with a slide that can answer that question. So that's that's one tip, but it's all about getting comfortable with conveying the information and coming off as the expert to me.

Yes. And I would just, thanks, Swathi for for that great answer detailed answer. But I would just add also, the so, again, coming back into the the area you are venturing in, if you prepare presenting HIV to an HIV company, I hope you expect that you're gonna have a lot of questions. Right? So the advantage of picking a subject that is not known to the audience is that you can you can protect yourself.

You are actually the expert in the room. If you're talking breast cancer to an HIV expert, most likely, you know, you are the expert, and you you can, you can basically shine at that time. The other thing I wanted to add, I will always make sure that there's nothing on my slides, a word, a sentence, anything that I cannot explain. Nothing. So I go slide by slide, word by word, and comb it and make sure that I'm not just reading what is on my slide.

I'm actually talking about it. I'm understanding it. And because that's one mistake that we do, you you have a slide. You have a deck exactly the way. I don't know where you got it or you prepared it.

And, I mean, if you cannot answer a question on one slide, take it down. That's that's the big tip that I give is to everyone. But, this program also has a huge preparation program for for for for MSL, for for for incoming MSL. It's a lot to talk about and, you know, for the for the interest of the time. I'll pass it back to you, Swathi.

Yes. Definitely. Okay. Great. So what would you say to someone who feels like they don't have the right set of experiences, to be successful in an MSL role.

The reason I'm asking this is because a lot of MSL job postings say required or recommended one to two years of MSL experience. So how would you respond to someone who says, you know, I don't feel like I have enough experience to get this role? I would say, look at me. I got into MSL with zero years of experience, and everybody get into MSL. Everybody has a first job.

So we are pharmacists. Hello? So what I will say and the company I worked for before, they only hired clinical pharmacies and people with no MSL experience. The company I'm working with now, they were hiring people with MSL experience because they were looking for senior MSRs. So if you I'm sure a lot of, companies will say we need one to two years MSL experience, but that means you have not looked at all of them.

There are some company that are not saying that. And, again, look at me. I came from clinical pharmacy with zero MSL experience, and I applied on LinkedIn. Link, I found my job on LinkedIn, my two jobs. So, that is that is not the entire I mean, that is not the whole picture.

Not all companies are requiring MSL experience. And if, you know and some of those jobs, once in a while, I will apply to. Swathi talked about, you know, preferred doesn't mean that you if you don't have it, you don't qualify. Right? So if you show that you have a lot of clinical experience in, let's say, diabetes, a company that is looking for diabetes expert, they're looking for one to two years experience, they might bring you in for an interview because you you've demonstrated that you've been, you know, a clinical pharmacist taking care of diabetes for five, six, ten years, and they say, hey.

He might not they might not have x minus MSL experience, but they have the clinical experience and they're teachable. So I will not stop there. You can continue to look, but if it's preferred, I will sometimes once in a while, I will take a chance and apply. Yeah. I would also add that, you know, you don't need clinical experience to excel in the MSL role.

And so we're giving a lot of examples of, you know, being clinical pharmacist, but it's all about how you frame your experience. And so let's say you're a PhD and you, you know, did your PhD in microbiology and you're really interested in becoming an MSL. So how are you gonna demonstrate that your previous experience with bench research, submitting manuscripts, presenting at conferences, you know, doing academic posters, how does that all translate to being a successful MSL? Right? So it's not you don't need clinical experience.

The other thing is I love to talk to community pharmacists or people who are, like, internal medicine doctors, for example, who or or maybe their PAs or NPs that work in a primary care setting. They see so many different disease states every single day. Like, chances are if you're seeing patients that you're seeing diabetes, you're seeing cardiometabolic diseases, you're seeing endocrinology related disease, you're seeing so many things. And so how are you going to approach an interview that's, let's say, a diabetes position with being a community pharmacist or being a primary care, you know, NP or something like that? Is it's talking about specifically what experiences you had with patients with diabetes.

And so just because you're not a specific therapeutic area expert yet, doesn't mean that you can't speak to certain experiences that you had before. So don't discount your clinical or nonclinical experience. Just it just if that you don't have that specific specialty. Swathi, I just wanna add this, please. Yes.

And I really, really appreciate that you brought that up. Clinical pharmacy is my experience. That's why it's coming up a lot, but don't be don't don't think that is the pathway is direct. We were talking about my pathway. Right?

So just so you know, even through this program, we coached community pharmacists, hospital pharmacists, all kinds of pharmacists into MSL. So it's all about demonstrating that you have expertise or experience with something. And I just wanna add this, Swathi. A company you let's let's pick a diabetes company. Right?

So when they're looking for an MSR, medical science liaison, somebody that is gonna provide scientific, data about the product to the providers. Okay. The one thing they're looking for is somebody that understands diabetes, somebody that has experience managing diabetes. So not necessarily a clinical pharmacist. I was a community pharmacy.

I was I I used to host classes for diabetic patient, taking them down the, into the store to have them, count calories, pick right food, and so forth. That resonated well on my on my, resume when I was looking for my first MSR job. So yes. Yes. Yes, Swathi.

You are correct. Being a clinical pharmacist is not a requirement. It's it's an addition, but you can go from, managed care pharmacy. I have a good friend that just broke into MSL from managed care pharmacy. So from from any corner of pharmacies, and most MSLs are MSL are are from these.

I've I know a lot of MSLs that don't have any specific certification and so on. So please don't get discouraged because you are not a clinical pharmacist. It's not a requirement. A pharmacist is all you need. Whatever area you're in, find a way to demonstrate that you have expertise or experience in a specific topic or a disease state area.

Yeah. And it's not just pharmacy as well, like NPs, PAs, MDs, PhDs. I've worked with so many different MSLs across the gamut that have tons of different experience, which is why I was giving the, you know, example of primary care NP or, you know, a a diabetic specialist PA. So lots of different opportunities. We do have two really good questions in the chat.

So, let's address those. So the first one is, you know, are there any companies you could recommend that hires zero experience MSL with a strong NP background? And then this person said Desiree also added some therapeutic areas. So I would start searching online and start searching to see, like, the way I would answer this is just starting to Google or ChatGPT and asking, you know, what are some of the companies that are in these specific therapeutic areas? Like, a lot of the ones you listed.

Like infectious disease, a lot of companies are exploring infectious disease, but maybe women's health and fertility is a bit more, specific. And so I would just start googling and seeing what companies come up and then looking and seeing what those job descriptions say. So I don't know any off the top of my head. And any answer I would give you would be after googling. So I I would suggest doing that.

Do you have anything to add to that? No. Unfortunately, I don't know any specific company that Yeah. I mean but but also it's shifting too. So, you know, as as Hubert mentioned, you know, sometimes companies say, you know, that they're only gonna go for no experience.

Sometimes they say only one to two years experience, and the same company can shift the way they do it. So just because, you know, I might think of some companies that have zero experience, I I don't know if it's still still the same. Because at the end of the day, it's the hiring manager that kind of defines a lot of that. So if the hiring manager is switching out, going to a different company, then it's it can change. So it's something that just requires the research.

And what I do is when I'm looking for jobs, especially when I'm honing in on different therapeutic areas is I'll make a spreadsheet, and I'll see what jobs are currently listed. Generally, when you're applying to jobs, I would not suggest to applying to a job that has been listed for longer than a week because in a week, they've probably gotten already four or 500 applications. So if you're not within the first few days of it being posted, you know, they might not even end up looking at your resume. So you might view that as like, oh my god. I'm getting a rejection, but chances are they haven't even looked at it.

Right? So it's just it's sometimes it's a numbers game. So going to LinkedIn, going to different job platforms, and posting, sorry, not posting, but, signing up for the, alerts when a new job is being posted so you know immediately, alright. It's time for me to apply in the first seventy two hours because, you know, they might not see your application after. And so if you're just looking on LinkedIn, there are so many jobs that were posted, like, two, four, eight weeks ago that the job posting is still there.

And so if you're applying to those, you know, you might not be seen, whereas you might be, like, an awesome candidate for the role. And that's the thing too is that oftentimes, a lot of people applying are qualified to be MSLs. It's just how are they standing out in terms of their CV and their interviews. And that leads us to the next question. Next question, in the chat, which is also great, is what should my CV look like?

Is it no longer needed to detail every single experience or job, which makes for a long CV, or do they only want a one page snapshot? So one page snapshot, I would say, is more of a resume. And every job, you know, they might want a resume or a CV, so I would look into, you know, what the the job is asking for. And this person said it's been some time since they've applied to position. So, Hubert, how would you answer that?

So, how should my CV look like? And I would say, off the, off the bat, I'm not a CV expert. I've not I mean, there's a lot of CV experts now on online. And, again, a good thing that's going for you is that part of the The MSL Academy™ program is to actually help you build a resume that is competitive in the area that you want to apply for or the area of your expertise. So and that's what I used.

Beside that, I don't have a lot of expertise on CV. The length, I I don't I I don't know. I I I have a three pager CV, resume, and that's what The MSL Academy™ helped me build. And since then, I've used it very effectively. So I'll refer you back to the academy.

They have they have people that are doing just that, and they're very, very good. True. Yeah. At The MSL Academy™, we do that. In in short, so that's one of the things that I do is I help people with their CVs.

So I would say, you know, what's most important with the CV is, like, ideally, you want it two to three pages. Sometimes people use CV. Sometimes people say resume. You want what's most important. Like, you don't want that you volunteered at an animal shelter.

Like, that is so, so great that you did that, but that's not important for this particular role. Right? So it's tailoring it to exactly what the role is asking for. And what I mean what the role is looking for, part of that is, you know, for every single application, I would recommend going and cross referencing the job description. Like, I split my screen, job description, and on the other side, your resume or your CV.

And make sure that there are different keywords from the job description in your CV or resume. Again, maximum two to three pages, only highlighting what is key and important to this role. It and, again, it's all about transferable skills. So if you're like, I was an elementary school teacher, you know, that is you have to take command and control of a classroom of people who are have a you know, of kids who are thinking, you know, 70,000,000 things at once and getting easily distracted, that's a great transferable skill that you were once an elementary school teacher. That means you know how to convey information and capture people's attention.

So that's a really good example of, like, a transferable skill. Whereas, like, if you volunteered in an animal shelter, I would not put that on your resume even if you are the director of, you know, the program or something just simply because it doesn't really translate directly to the roles or the skills that are important for achieving, you know, success in the MSL role. So, yeah, it's a lot of the reason I brought up the keyword thing in particular is because even before you get to the hiring manager or you get to, you know, the next stage, they're going to be they, as in the company, they're gonna be putting all the resumes through likely some sort of AI or algorithmic, you know, platform. And so they're gonna be looking for keywords. And so for example, you know, some companies call KOLs or key opinion leaders, they call them TOLs or thought leaders, or they call them thought leader liaisons versus MSLs.

Right? So you need to look into each company and look into each job description to say and see, like, okay. They here they call them KOLs. Here they call them TOLs. Here they call them TSLs.

So you have to change different parts of your resume because, otherwise, if you put KOL, this company calls it a TOL, you're gonna be automatically rejected because it's gonna think the computer is gonna think you have zero KOL experience. Yeah. My company Swathi, my company is OL. So Yeah. That's OL.

See, opinion leader. Exactly. See, it's it's different at every place. And so you have to be able to every time before you click the button to submit, make sure that your resume is mirroring what the job description says. And, again, like engaging with KOLs.

There's a lot of different ways you engage with top KOLs. If you're a clinical pharmacist or an NP in the clinical setting, are you working cross functionally with different health care providers? Oh, great. Then you're engaging with KOLs. Are there different vendors coming in that you're working with?

That can also be viewed as a vendor relationship or a KOL. Right? So it's you don't need to have that MSL experience where you are actually engaging with KOLs from a company or corporate perspective. How can you translate some of these other experiences that you've had to make your resume super compelling and use that pharmalingo because that's what they wanna see. It's like, if you're using the pharmalingo, they will understand, like, oh, that means she understands the role and what this role entails because she's able to use the lingo even though she has zero MSL experience on her resume.

I hope that was helpful. I I mean, I could talk about this stuff all the time because I review a lot of resumes, and I I help a lot of people through the academy and through, you know, other mentorship. And so just getting your resume or CV right is so important to even land a hiring manager interview. It's just key. Because the type of resume that you will apply to a clinical role or researcher role or, a clinical, like, clinical research role, all of those resumes are going to look so different from a resume that's tailored for industry.

Just because the way that people talk in industry is completely different. Even though a lot of the skills that you have from other positions are transferable, the way that you talk about it is the most important. Amazing. Oh my gosh. It's 08:58.

That was the the quickest hour I think we've ever had. So thank you to everyone who sent in such good questions for the engaging conversation, Hubert, for you sharing your, you know, your expertise and your, your advice for everyone who's looking to break into the industry and really excel at this role. You know, in in the last few minutes, any last, you know you know, takeaway that you can provide the audience? Yes, Swathi. I've been an MSL for six years now, and my pride is, that I've been able to pull some of my friends, coworkers, into this, I would say, good area of pharmacy practice.

I've since I learned about MSL, pursued the job with MSL and got in. My job has been not to help other people get in and enjoy the quality of life, the life balance that they deserve as professionals. So if you are, making the decisions to join the MSL and you wanna hear a a a true, I would say what, live testimony about how this has transformed people's life. You're talking to the right person. I look forward to doing everything I can to help you guys, and, just just let us know how we can help you.

We'll get you there no matter, your background, as professionals, whether you're a MD, MP, PA, PharmD, disciplines for you in the in the pharmaceutical industry, and I am sure you'll be very happy when once you join. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, and this was such a good session. Again, thank you to everyone who who tuned in live or anyone watching the recording. If you wanna, you know, relisten to any of this, we'll be posting it on our YouTube channel as well as uploading the audio to our podcast.

So, you know, any additional questions, anything we can do to help you or to answer, we're only a LinkedIn DM away or, you know, you can send us a message through The MSL Academy™. So that's www.theMSLacademy.com. Alrighty. Well, thank you so much, and until next time, Hubert. Alrighty.

Bye bye. Bye bye. Thank you.