Breaking Into the MSL Role by The MSL Academy™ - Episode 4

Alright. And we are live. Thank you again to everyone who is attending live or who's watching the recording. We are, you know, we are here again this evening for another episode of office hours with Dr. Swathi. And these office hour sessions are to answer your questions.

That's why we're here. We are both MSLs in the field. So I'm an MSL and our guest is a senior MSL or a medical science liaison. We'll get into exactly what that is, in today's session. And really what we're here to do is to answer your questions and to share a little bit about, you know, our guests, journey to, to where they, to where they are right now in their professional career.

So, as I said, you know, if you have any questions, this is meant to be interactive. Please put them in the chat and we will answer them as as they come in. But in the meantime, as you're thinking of questions, we would love to, you know, give a warm introduction to our guests. If you could please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about, you know, what you do now. Oh, thank you, Dr. Swathi.

Well, so my name is Dr. Siagat. So I'm currently a senior MSL. And first of all, our discussion tonight, everything that I'll be talking about is based on my own experience. It's not related to my company. I just wanna make sure that it's clear that I'm currently representing I work for a company, but tonight is me talking to the audience and about my personal experience, not necessarily, you know, linked to that company.

So, just now, currently, I'm a senior MSL, like I mentioned. And then, prior to that, I don't know I don't know if you're interested to know about the history, but prior to that, I'm a clinical pharmacist by training, specializing in critical care and pediatrics. And then, I also did before that, you know, sometime as a, you know, frontline worker, as a respiratory care practitioner as well. And then, prior to that, many, many years ago, about 20 years ago, I was a researcher, and I was in the organic chemistry research part, and, I did some work there too. And that's actually where my first doctorate degree is coming from, from a research side.

So that's a little bit about myself. Wow. Amazing. I very clear question that you have in between. So Wow.

Yeah. I I actually didn't know that you started off as a PhD researcher. So what, you know, let's start from there. So what got you interested into pharmacy, in the first place? Yeah.

That that's kind of interesting. So, I was a researcher prior to to all of these. So working in the lab, mostly on the bench. So the job there was basically working on any molecules that we use to design those drugs. So that was the first, you know, thing that I did about 20 20 years ago.

And then, when I moved to the US, then I decided to change a little bit, you know, to explore the medical field. You know, that was for a personal reason to begin with, but that personal reason, you know, linked to a family member. My very close, my daughter family, you know, member She has a respiratory condition. That led me to switch from, you know, research in academic to go to the medical field. And that's where I went to do, like, a a degree in respiratory care and started practicing as a respiratory care practitioner.

But when I came to the US, with that experience that I had in research, the goal was actually to, kind of do some pharmaceutical research. But when I started doing the medical part, the clinical part of, you know, as a respiratory care practitioner, I kind of loved it. And I realized that, okay, I kind of feel like I I can contribute more being on the clinical side. Then I went back to do a second doctorate degree in pharmacy, and that's where, after that, I did residency and then started practicing, and then I then switched to the industry at some point. Wow.

Amazing. And so as you were working as a clinical pharmacist, you know, when was the first time you heard of the medical science, you know, liaison role? Like, when was the first time that that, you know, came across your desk, so to speak? Yeah. That that's kind of interesting because, to be honest with you, when I was I did the whole curriculum school residency, I had no idea in mind about this role.

Nothing at all. And I have a very good friend of mine. You know, I'll call you my brother, doctor. He was a past graduate from the, you know, The MSL Academy™. At the time, he wasn't called MSL Academy.

He was a different name. And then, he kind of, like, you know, started talking to me about the opportunities, you know, that I can have joining, the role. And I'll be honest with you. I kinda run away from it for about a year or so. And one day, you know, we met at, it was at this community event where he's kind of sat me down and say, I really wanna talk to you about this.

You really need to hear about this. And that's when doctor kind of, like, you know, explain I I honestly, the reason why I was running away from his squad, I didn't know understood exactly what exactly I was gonna be doing as far as the role. And to me, I was more clinical driven, but at the same time, I didn't know that I can do something that at the same time, I can have an even higher contribution to the patients, not not necessarily being with them every day, but, you know, looking at things on the mode on on on the highest level. And when I started understanding about that, you know, that's how, you know, I decided to, you know, to explore more about that opportunity, and I went ahead and contacted the, the program. And, you know, I learned about it, And more interesting enough, I I was able to to secure something.

Wow. And so, you know, when when your when your colleague was telling you about the MSL role, what was it about the role that stood out to you? Like, what was that moment where you're like, yes. Absolutely. I need to I I need to pursue this, and I need to make this my next career step.

Right. I mean, it it was mostly first of all, if you have worked in critical care like I I was and and also pediatric like I was, you can understand how intense that environment could be. You know, not that I'm running away from an intense environment, but it's very intense and very challenging. It's very, very demanding. And on top of that, if you have, you know, other things on the side, like families that you also wanna, you know, take care of, sometime it could be really challenging.

I have youngest kids at the time, and and I wanted to be involved in the, you know, also social activities and be able to have some kind of flexibility, not necessarily having to drive an hour to work, things like that. So that's kinda what some of some of the things that really changed my mind as far as how I know I made my decision to switch and, you know, moving in into the industry is because of that. Like, that flexibility, that other part that, you know, I was able to, you know, to to cover. You know? Right.

Mhmm. And so in your words, what does an MSL do? Like, if you were to describe it in, like, 2 sentences, you know, what does an MSL do, and what sort of role do they play in in the industry and with health care providers? I mean, just like the definition of the profession is medical sales liaison. I mean, the liaison side is the side that, you know, is the biggest part of the world that we do.

We are the liaison between, the providers on the field, you know, the patients on the field, and anyone interested to learn about, you know, some, you know, medical information on the field. And, also, the company was actually working on those different molecules and and and and medication for the patient. So we play that role of being a liaison and understanding, clinically and also the data that behind, you know, what we're gonna be discussing with the providers. So we get to play that role of being the liaison, you know, and also sometime bring some valuable information from the field to the company so that they can make some, you know, adjustment at the end of the day for the benefit of the patients. Yes.

And one of the the questions that I get often is, you know, what's the difference between, you know, a sales representative and a medical science liaison? I think you partially already answered that, but how would you explain that to someone who's learning about the role for the first time? Right. One of the biggest biggest differences is that as a medical science liaison, you are not promoting anything. Your primary role is to engage in a scientific way about, you know, a data, a disease state, or anything related to, you know, how to manage a patient regarding a specific we call that therapeutic area and then with the providers.

Now in that engagement, it's pretty clear that we all understand that I am not selling anything, but I'm mostly sharing information. And I'm mostly engaging to have some valuable information going both way or providing some valuable information to the provider clinically. Right? And a salesperson will be promoting, and that's not the job that we do as a medical liaison. No.

That is definitely the regulation doesn't allow us to promote anything, but to engage in those productive and mutual, you know, exchange scientifically and clinically. Yes. Definitely. And, so you said, you know, you learned about the role. Now all of our audience understands, you know, what that role is.

So tell us a little more about your experience with The MSL Academy™ from, you know, the mentorship as well as some of the the curriculum. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, my experience first of all, if you look at my clinical background and my other professional background, you know, I mean, yes, I do have some credentials that definitely I can play a role like this.

And on many ends, first of all, as a researcher, and then second of all, as a, you know, frontline in clinician clinicians. And then second of all, as a, you know, clinical pharmacy print, you know, a role at different level. All that are great, you know, clinical baggage that I can bring to the role. However, I understood at the time that without understanding exactly what my role was gonna be, it was gonna be challenging for me to be able to break in. And that was one of the biggest reason why I joined the academy and to have that mentorship.

And I I can see who's who's connected, but I know that many people reach out to me on LinkedIn and ask me, oh, tell me a little bit about how, you know, what was the transition like? And I said to them most of the time, you may have the best clinical background. Everything will be great. You can even break in without having some support. But to me, I think having a mentor is actually something extremely valuable as far as somebody who can guide you about understanding your role and be able to articulate on that, and that is the easiest part to break in.

Now in my case, that's the decision that I make. And to me, I'm mostly sold as an investment on myself. Now investing on yourself, building yourself to be in a position where you're gonna be needed by, you know, companies and other organization for the role that you are actually practicing. So to me, the academy was a big push as far as understanding my role and be able to articulate that during the interview process. Right?

Yeah. It's very valuable. Yes. Amazing. And so can you talk a little bit more about mentorship and how mentorship has played a role, whether it was in your career leading up to being an MSL or now that you are an MSL or rather senior MSL?

Right. I mean, like I said like I shared earlier, I mean, the biggest role that the mentorship has done for me was, first of all, you know, when I joined the academy, you know, I can have all the materials that the academy provided as far as, you know, what I need to know about the role. But at the same time, sometime you need to have the opportunity to engage with someone physically, you know, virtually or whatever the venue is. But you need to talk to someone so that they can explain to you what the role actually is on the field. And that's where the mentorship is extremely to me, is extremely valuable because you have someone who can explain to you in a clear fashion about, you know, how you operate on the field.

How do you engage with you those we call them key opinion leaders. How do you engage with them? How do you maintain your relationship? How do you, you know, bring yourself to being a big part of the team that you are working with? Because that's also extremely important.

And then that's where the mentorship also plays a big role because and and and I'm gonna say this. On my very first interview of course, it takes it's not like a one time thing that you apply one time and you get a job. You know, it's a multiple step interview process, but you wanna be in a situation where where you engage during that process. You wanna hear the question about where did you practice that role before because you you are so articulating on that. You are so explaining on that role that you're asking people are asking where did you do that before?

You're like, okay. I did a training, but I have not actually done it. And then they would have no. You've sounds like you have done it. So and in my specific case, that's what happened on my very first role when I broke in.

You know, my the hiring manager asked me many time, like, I mean, where did you practice that role before? And I was so proud to say, in fact, I did a program that trained me to understand the role, and then that's why I can easily talk about it. And the mentorship was a big part of that of that part. You know? And everything that the program, you know, says on it.

You know, a mentorship is not just about, yes, they mentor me in the program, but they almost also show me the path about how do you engage with others, you know, other MSLs. You know, how do you reach out to them or maintain? How do you engage with them? And during that process, I was also so, you know, proud to be able to connect with some of those MSL before me. And, one of them is Evelyn.

I don't know if she's connected, but one of them, like no. And on that mentorship, they are putting you on the path also on explaining to you what the world entails, and then that's how, you know, you bring yourself to a different level. So they bring value. Mhmm. Yeah.

Definitely. It's it's all about, you know, the networking and and the the coaching and and getting to know other people in the space. Absolutely. So you brought up a little bit about the interview and kind of the application process. I'd love to go into a little bit more there.

So we always ask the guests, you know, how many applications do you think you sent out before you, you know, landed your first role? Right. I mean, in my case my case is a little bit, unique. I may not have I don't know what other, you know, other panelists have said before, but in my case, it was a little bit different. I would say I did about, it wasn't more than 20 applications.

Wow. But people do more than that. I know. That's the lowest I've heard, I have to say. Right.

But my case was a little bit unique because when I joined the academy, in fact, after, you know, I had some couple of discussion with the, the the the program director, Dr. Sidonie Niba, after we work a little bit about how I can improve my profile on LinkedIn and how I can present myself, raise my resume, all those little things. I'll be honest with you. After that process, people started reaching out to me without me applying first. Wow. Because it's a little bit unique because, in fact, you know, about a month and a half into the program, I will re I know somebody reach out to me about a great opportunity that actually took the opportunity, but I changed my mind later on.

It wasn't necessarily MSL role, but it was something close to that. And I end up changing my mind, you know, about about 2 months later on and then went back to the MSL role. But I did put less than 20 application in in my case. And, I think one of the reason why it was a little bit, you know, less was because I did follow the process. Because there's a process that the academy is gonna be, you know, guiding you as far as how do you put yourself out there.

How do you present yourself? How do you prepare for that first interview? You hire the the recruiter, the hiring manager, you know, and then the the panel interview and and so on. I did follow that very no. No.

In a very compliance way. Like, I wasn't deviating from that process. No. Not not at all. And I will use all the time that I had when I was driving to listen and listen and listen and listen again about all those things so that when I get that phone call, I'll be ready to, know, answer it, you know, in a more professional and and prepared way.

So in my case, it took me a little bit less than others. But like I said, you know, the first role, I think that role was mostly because I was able to articulate about the role, and they understood that I can perform based on the strength that I had. Wow. That's so great. And, I mean, what a great, you know, story and experience for you to have.

I know a lot of other people. It did takes quite a bit more more time, but I would say as you went through the interview process, what are, you know, some I've let's say, like, the top three tips that you have for, you know, people going through the interview process. So the HR interview to the, you know, hiring manager interview to the panel interview, the scientific presentation. What are some of the tips that you have utilized, you know, now landing your first role and now getting a promotion, to the senior MSL role, and having quite a bit experience in interviewing. What would you, you know, recommend to people who are on this path right now?

I mean, I would say, first of all, try to learn about, you know, the people that you wanna work with, the company. Right? I mean, most of the time, those who wants to break into this role, most of the time, they will have the clinical knowledge that is needed for the role. And I will name it, like, you know, if you're a medical doctors, if you're a PA or PharmD, you know, DNP, you know, those APPs, advanced practice providers, it's mostly clear that it doesn't matter what the area is. You are gonna be able to understand it unless it's something that you really don't like to work on.

You know, some people will say, oh, I don't like oncology. I don't feel like I wanna work in oncology. That's fine. But, you know, the companies knows that they can train you on that if you are waiting to open your mouth for that. So to me, that's one part of the equation, but that's not the major part of it because after, they understand that, you know, you can perform on that aspect clinically.

Now the other question is operationally. Can you perform on the field? And that's one of the biggest part of it because we know compliance and other things comes into play where, you know, you have to understand your role on the field. So that's the reason why to me, having the training from the academy was important. So very first tip for me is being about learning about the role.

Now if you learn it through a program like the The MSL Academy™, great. Because you're gonna have professional, we're gonna put you on the path. Right? Now if you learn it yourself, I would say great, but you may not have someone who can guide you even more on what you need to do or will know when some of those question comes into play. Because, you know, we have to operate on the fee on the compliance way.

So understanding the role to me, that's the number one because that's extremely important. Now second, now the company that you're applying for, you have to understand the culture because you can understand the role. You can like the role. You can like the therapeutic area. But if you don't like the people that you're working with, it's gonna be a problem.

So you have to understand the company culture. How do you do it? You have to be able to read about what the values that they have is. You have to make sure that you match your value. So first is gonna be, yes, you need to understand your role in the field.

2nd, you need to understand the company value. Now that's gonna be very important. And then 3rd, you know, you have to be flexible in your mind and open to learn. You know, you have to bring that humility into you into your game that I'm willing to learn. I'm willing to learn from anyone, including those who have been in the field, you know, less time than myself.

When I joined my first company, I was the youngest MSL experience wife for my company. Guess what? By the end of the year, my mentor, fact, I was stating I was a little bit telling her, you know, how I operate on the field based on the learning that I received. And she was taking actually a lot of things from me. Funnily enough, today she I like to call me I'm like, I'm her mentor, but that's not the case.

She was the one who mentored me on my 1st role. But with the flexibility, the humility that you bring in, the open minded that you have as far as as far as learning about the role, that's gonna be a big thing on you'll be able to succeed. So do that. Yeah. That's the those are all great tips.

So understanding the role, understanding the culture, and really your open mindedness and willingness to learn, I think that could be applied to, you know, starting a new role, starting a new hobby, starting so many new things. So I think that that's just amazing advice. So what do you say to, you know, people who are listening in who feel like, you know, they might not be qualified for the role? Because, you know, let's say they have a PharmD, they have an MD, they have a PhD, they're a nurse practitioner, but they feel like, oh, I don't have any MSL experience. I don't have any medical affairs or industry experience.

What would you say to someone who's feeling like that right now? I mean, I will kind of say something that I said earlier. I mean, if you have that feeling, that's the same feeling that I had, you know, when I was trying to break in. Like I said, in my case, honestly, like, other people may even have heard about the industry work before, you know, practicing as a pharmacist. In my case, I did not have any idea about the role.

But when no. My good friend of mine, a good friend of mine, start talking about the role to to me, no. I kind of understood what, you know, the role was, but I felt like I needed to bring myself to a different level. Not to be like any other candidate who can apply just because they have the credential, but a candidate who can apply because they have the credential, yes, but they they can also understand the role and they can perform on the role on day 1. Right?

Right? So, you know, I would say my biggest, you know, advice to someone who's trying to break in now will be, please make sure that you find a place where somebody can really train you about the role is extremely important. Because if you already have those degrees that you mentioned, FOMD, MD, no PhD, depending on the area in PhD or maybe APPs, you know, You are you know, you are really, like you know, you can understand the clinical part of, you know, any disease state, but you have to be able to operate on the field. So that's the other part of it. And that's where, you know, I would say the biggest advice for someone looking to enter the the, you know, the the the medical affairs industry will be, please put yourself in a position where you can train yourself, and then, you know, be I think that's gonna be a big push from that.

Yeah. But that's what I did in my case. And the advice that I'm giving here is nothing different than people I I will tell you, doctor Swadley. People reach out to me on LinkedIn every day, every single day, and ask me this question. And I always make sure that I answer the question.

Why? Because people had to do that for me also when I was looking to enter. When I started the program, I did the I followed the process. Like I said, reach out to couple of, you know, MSLs on LinkedIn, hopefully reach out to couple of people, and I learned from them. One of the biggest advice was you need to understand the role.

You need to understand the role. If you don't understand the role, how would they give you the job that you don't understand how to perform the job? How do you learn? You know, you can join an academy like this one. You know, you can know whatever the process you have to understand the role, basically.

Yes. Definitely. And on that note of understanding the role, could you describe a little bit about what your I know every day looks different, but what your weeks look like on average? You know, what are you doing? How are you spending your time at at work?

Right. Now spending the time at work, I would say, first of all, we depend on the company. And, you know, a regular week, I will just describe a week. Like I said before, it's not necessarily the week that I have for my current company. It's not linked to that.

But a regular week that I would say not a week for me will be, okay. On Monday, for example, I can have an administration day on Monday where I'm gonna have, you know, a couple of meetings with the team, you know, could be my director, maybe with the entire medical affairs team, you know, couple of meetings scheduled on Monday. And then also the day for me to plan maybe not necessarily that week, but maybe 2 or 3 weeks from there. Because something about this role is also about being extremely, self sufficient enough to be able to plan because you are like your boss in your territory. So you have to control it.

You have to make sure that you're meeting, you know, some aspect of your role, and you have to be able to manage to get to those goal that you have set for yourself or maybe the team has set for you. Right? So on Monday, I may be starting planning on 2 or 3 weeks ahead of time knowing that, okay. I'm planning on meeting, you know, x y z providers for x y z reasons. Then I'm gonna start sending and maybe sending them maybe an email or something, kinda reach out to them on Mondays, and then, you know, like that.

And then on Tuesday, sometime, it will be a day that I might be traveling. You know, the travel day would depends. Could be a local travel maybe because I I I have to meet someone not too far from me, but it could be also a travel where I'm not I need to fly. Right? So, usually, I reserve that from, like, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays.

I could be out on the field. And then on Fridays, I might be back in in your home office to do some other administration work, like closing out on my weekly report, you know, putting in any insight information that I have, doing my, you know, expense report because that's a big part of the job. You spend the money, but you have to expense the money. You have to show what you have done with the money that you you spend during the week. So I like to do that on a weekly basis.

I wasn't good at that at the beginning, but, you know, I like to do it on a weekly basis. So Friday will need for me will be to kind of clear those things and then also have some additional, you know, meetings with the internal team, if any. Now it doesn't mean that Mondays Friday, I cannot meet people for work. No. It doesn't mean that.

That's my preference. But sometimes you may have this provider that is just available on Mondays or Fridays, then you just need to adjust. That's all. You just need to adjust. So that's a little bit of a description.

You know? Big, big description, you know, without having to give too much detail about, okay, what those meeting will be entirely and those kind of things. Yes. Yes. And, yeah, I appreciate that because I think that's what a lot of people are wondering about is like, okay.

I wanna understand the role, and I I have read the descriptions, but I think to actually hear it from you, is great. I do wanna, you know, I see so much, you know, engagement in the chat. Anyone who has any questions, please do not hesitate to put them in the chat, so that, you know, we can get them answered for you before the end of our session today. If there are no other questions in the chat right now, please, you know, put some in there, but I will continue asking my questions. So I have, I'm wondering, so, you know, you've transitioned now from being an MSL to a senior MSL.

Can you talk a little bit about that transition and how your role is different now or if it's different at all? Right. So, I mean, like any other job, Ade, when you transition to be in a senior position, it just means that, you know, you're gonna have more responsibilities. You know, they're looking to have more from you, meaning that the level of, you know, engagement that I have internally as far as project and other things that may be attached to my role will be a little bit more than just being a regular MSL. I don't know.

I'm just gonna give you example. You know, as a MSL, you may not necessarily be in in a, you know, a board in a global a global board of, you know, this team working on a specific project. But as a senior MSA, you need to take a little bit more responsibilities as far as your role for the team and also the level of, you know, of work that we can perform for for your own team. Maybe now being a liaison for a clinical trial, maybe now being a, you know, a liaison working on this specific project about, you know I don't know. I'm just guessing here.

Like, the company wants to do a community, you know, engagement with a different, you know, an institution. You may be the one leading that. You know, maybe an advisory board. You may be the one also now, you know, helping to build that and be able to assist, you know, do a few things on the advisory board, things like that. So it just bring a little bit more responsibilities on your end given the fact that, you know, they understand that now, you perform, you know, very well on the field.

You have engaged at a different level with a lot of providers, then you can take that senior position role where you have more responsibilities, basically. Yes. Okay. That's helpful. And I do see, a question in the chat from Dina.

So how did your clinical experience, how has your clinical expertise helped you when you started, and how is it helping you currently as a senior MSO? Right. Yeah. That's that's, that's a very good question. And, like I said before, I said something before, like, any of us who have, you know, a doctorate degree, mostly clinical, you know, clinical degree like MD, PharmD, or, you know, APPs, GMPs, you can understand, you know, any disease state.

However, if you get to practice in a specific role as a clinician, like in my case, if you get to have a lot of experience in critical care, for example, or pediatrics, for example, or maybe respiratory, for example, like in my case, I can easily take a role in critical care, in pediatrics, you know, patient care, in respiratory patient care. It doesn't matter the population. Now it has because at that point, when I take a role like that, I'm extremely viable for the company, and I'm also extremely viable for the providers on the field. Different than if I was taking a role in, let's say, oncology that I'm not too strong in oncology because that was not my my specialties. It was one of the specialties that I did in my background.

I'm gonna have to learn a lot there. And then, yes, I will connect with them and I would engage with the providers, but the level of engagement will be different than someone who has specialized in that. Now my clinical work, for example I'm gonna take an example. Has a respiratory care practitioner, when I go out there to engage with the pulmonologist or maybe an allergist or maybe, you know, any physician that takes care of respiratory conditions. My level of discussion, I'll be honest with you, will be different than someone who has the same role but have not practiced on the field because I can relate to any discussion around that.

They can talk about anything related to respiratory conditions. I'll be well suited to being able to engage on that. And when I engage in those topics, I can easily bring that back to the topic that I wanna engage with that provider on. That's where the biggest difference is when you are very specialized in in a specific area. I can navigate that conversation front and back with that, be be very comfortable doing it, and be able to get the information that I'm trying to have from the provider, and be able to share some valuable information to the providers as well.

That's when one of the biggest difference is. No. And does that also apply when you get to that senior position role? Because now as a senior medical or CNS liaison, I may be engaged now, maybe sometime, just depending on what the company is working on, maybe in a global stage about something. Now on that global stage, you're gonna be the the medical liaison person that sometime on that discussion, you may say, hey.

This consideration by the way, when you work on the field, that's not how the patient will say this. That's not how the provider says this. Why? Because you have practice and you have, you know, have enough experience to guide that thinking on exactly what is gonna benefit those patients. That's the biggest difference.

Right? Even though we can all do the same role, that's gonna be one of the key differences about how I can add more than someone else can add in my specific area. Great. Yeah. And thank you so much for your for your question.

If anyone else has questions, please do not hesitate to continue populating the the chat. So in the meantime, as we're waiting for other audience questions, I'd love to ask, you know, what are the top three skills you think MSLs need to be successful in the role? Another way to think of that question is, you know, when you look at MSLs that you know who are very successful in the field, what are 3, you know, attributes that they have? Oh, yeah. It's you.

You have to be someone who like to build relationship because your role is gonna be about also building relationship with, some of the opinion leaders or providers on the field. So you have to be someone who would like to engage in in conversation, would like to connect with people. That's one of the biggest quality. Because that engagement is gonna bring all everything that comes with it, you know, flexibility as far as how you're thinking, you know, how you engage with them, how you share your information. That's gonna be one of the biggest skill that you need to succeed on your role.

Now second, you have to be a team player. And I think I mentioned that, also earlier, for a different question. Now that team player mindset is that for my team, what am I bringing also that can support my team to perform on all the role? Now because the more you because this is not a job that you do it and you say, okay. It's just me.

You're working with a group of people, and you own your own territory. That's 1. But, 2, you can also get help from your colleague while covering other other space in the country. Why? Because they may have a relationship with someone in your own territory that you are trying to build.

But if you are not a team player, they may not be open necessarily to, you know, to work with you on those end because everybody own his own territories. Now you have to be a team player, you know, be able to support your team internally and be able to, you know, represent the company that you're working on out, you know, for out there in a, you know, in a very professional way. So that's the second thing that's gonna make you succeed. Now, I mean, the third thing the third thing that I come to mind, what else can you bring into that? I mean, just being, you know, being yourself.

I mean, you have to be yourself out there. You have to show, you know, the level of professionalism that you have. Show your clinical because at the end of the day, even though, like I said earlier, that each of us who have a, you know, a g degree can perform the role, you have to make sure that you become every every expert on that on that specific area because you're gonna your your, like, your reputation can easily, you know, like, fade away from you if you don't show yourself clinically that you understand what you're talking about. Think about yourself engaging out there with professional because some of them are actually global leaders on the field that you're covering. And most of them are the US is one of the biggest market, if not the biggest market on the in the world.

Everybody wants to be in in the US market. So at the same time, the biggest research that bring a lot of value also in the medical field are most of the time done in the US. That's why everybody will come to the, you know, FDA to make sure that, you know, everything is is vetted by the FDA before they can run the research. So you're gonna be dealing with some global leaders that are the leaders in those field in the world. Think about yourself engaging with them and then not knowing exactly what you're talking about, then that's gonna be a big, no.

That's gonna ruin your reputation. So those are the things that you have to make sure that you you keep in mind. Yeah. I love that you brought up teamwork because I think so often the MSL role is thought of as, you know, autonomous and setting your own schedule and working kind of in your own silos. So I love the idea of bringing it back to Teamwork.

You don't hear, MSLs talking about Teamwork that often. So that was that was nice and refreshing. It is extremely important. It's extremely important because you wanna be a key part of your own team, meaning that they know that they can rely on you to deliver, and then they also can rely on you or you can rely on them, you know, sometime when you need help or, you know, any kind of, you know, things related to your role on the field. Yes.

Definitely. And we have another question, in the chat. So, the same person who asked the the previous question, came back and, asked like a follow-up. So I am I'm specialized in long term care pharmacy and management of outpatient pharmacies. Do you have any recommendations for me to excel as an MSL?

Right. Let me I'm I'm not sure if the person in MSL already or just a No. So the person is not an MSL already. I think they're an aspiring MSL. Okay.

I mean, one of the thing about long term care I mean, especially, to excel, if you wanna break in, you have to find, one specific area where you feel very strong about it. Because long term care kind of encompass a lot of things in it. You know, a lot of disease state, you know, But, you may depending on where you are doing your long term care work, you may have in that facilities, you know, something that you train, maybe cardiovascular patient coming in. Maybe that's why you get to manage regularly. You know?

If that's the case, that means that it's something that you definitely gonna be strong on it because you are managing those patient regularly. So to me, that's gonna be, a little bit of, you know, a clear path for you to start understanding that this is an area that I'm I really look like a space you know, like, one one of the expert on that field, then what about I grow that and become, you know, and do the transition to be, you know, the MSF for that specific, field? So to me, it's just an example, but it could be 2 or 3 of those. You know, it may be cardiovascular, maybe renal, maybe something else. You know?

Whatever it is, you have to figure out those three things that you feel like you are an expert managing those patient in long term care. That's where, to me, I'll put the focus on to build myself to become even, you know, have a different level of expertise into that before now, you know, seeing how I can I can I can, explain that in into a MSO role? But you have to show that you are, you know, a specialist on something that you can bring that value back to the company. Yeah. And I would add to that.

And, in addition so, you know, a lot of, you know, pharmacists, whether they're like retail pharmacists, clinical pharmacists, or pharmacists that, you know, are are like you, Dina, the one who, asked the question. You know, the lot of people are wondering, you know, how do I leverage this background, especially if I feel like a jack of all trades, but I don't really have a specific specialty because I'm not, a clinical pharmacist in critical care, in respiratory care. But instead, I see so many disease states or conditions every single day. To me, it's all about framing. And so if you feel like you know a lot about quite a few different disease states, so that could be cardiovascular, endocrinology, psychiatry, neurology.

I'm just thinking from from your perspective, Dina. Like, those might be some of the things that that you could some of the therapeutic areas that you could talk about. So I would structure your resume, especially if you're going to apply for a cardiovascular focused position or cardiometabolic position that you focus in your interview on all the different things and experiences and, examples that speak directly to your experience from cardiovascular, or cardiometabolic, because you have such a great varied experience in that clinical setting. So I think that a lot of people think, oh, you need to be a clinical pharmacist. You need to have this specific specialty.

I think that that could be super helpful. But if you feel like you're in a practice setting where you're actually thinking about and talking about and working with patients in across multiple therapeutic areas, I think that makes you even more marketable. But what you need to do is when you apply to those specific roles, you need to have variations of your resume and variations and different examples in your interview stories to really specialize the experience. Because, you know, if you have that many therapeutic area opportunities that you can apply to, that's amazing. But you just need to make sure that you're sending the right information to the right roles and articulating your experience properly.

Right. Right. And and I'll add to that. That's a very important point that you mentioned, mostly because I have also interacted a lot with, some of the retail pharmacies, who have the same feeling that, okay, maybe this is not for them. I will say no.

In fact, the person who led me to be an MSA was a retail pharmacist. So he's a MSA today. He has been MSA for many, many years. So, no, that's not true. But in fact, the the, the retail pharmacist and long term care and other pharmacist working in outpatient on outpatient settings or have a lot of experience, but they just need like you mentioned, they just need to know how to tailor that experience to what is been they're looking for, you know, for that position.

Because, and that's where, having a mentor, an expert to help you out plays a big role. Because you can have all that experience, but you just don't know how to talk about it. Right? And that's where, you know, you can see when you see that with someone and they start explaining to you that, in fact, you have a lot of experience, then you might think in fact, you have a lot to to share and to, you know, to showcase out there than what you can that's when you're gonna start to bring all those things together. It's always important.

Even in my case, I mean, I I had to sit down so that they can tailor everything and say, yes. Even though this this, you have this, and this, and that, you can now have bring that into, you know, couple of part out then. That's very important. And and they definitely wanna see in the interview process the potential. Because for example, you know, you could be, you know, a clinical pharmacist in a specific area, or you could, you know, as we're talking about, be in this clinical setting where you see multiple therapeutic areas or disease states, but they wanna see, okay, you know, maybe the role is in dermatology.

You don't know. I'd rather you don't have as much experience about dermatology. You're not a dermatology specialist, but they wanna see the potential in the interview that you're willing to learn that you know enough about these therapeutic areas that you would be, hit the ground running and learn what you need to know to be successful in the role. So that's also a key part of it as well. Right.

Okay. So we have another question, in the chat. Again, I I hope I'm not mispronouncing anyone's name, but Andrea, Andrea, has, a question for us. What advice do you have to get recruiters or hiring managers to want to interview you? Oh, thank you, Andrea.

That that's that's a good question. I mean, usually, like I said, I said at the beginning, that I was a, you know, process compliant person as far as what the program was telling me to do is because the way that the program is designed, they have a specific design where, you know, they're gonna tell you that, okay. Week number 1, this is why you should be doing week number 2. That's why you should be doing things like that. I did follow that process very closely up to the point that, okay, this week, you're ready to see if we can engage with recruiters.

Right? Now that engagement part of it is like, okay. Now how I'm I'm not gonna present myself to the recruiter out there. So sometimes you have to present yourself to them, you know, before they can actually look at you and say, hey. This is someone that I need to talk to talk to.

And that guidance about, you know, how to present yourself is very, very important. Right? And then, you know, I I did advise that, you know, if you can be in a setting where somebody can guide you on that, that would be great. But otherwise, usually, it's like, okay. I'm presenting myself to, a a a recruiters, you know, And this is what I want them to see based on what they have.

Because sometimes, they may have an opening. They may not have an opening. And as far as the recruiter, you you also have to make the difference between a primary recruiter for a company and someone who is just contracting, you know, to recruit for those companies. There's a difference between those 2. And those differences, honestly, I know, can be explained to you better also by by someone mentoring you to understand how should I engage with a a contractor recruiter and how should I engage with a primary recruiter for your company.

Because it also matters on how you engage with those, with those entities and how you present yourself. And and and once again, on that end, how do you I think I shared some point that after I worked on my professional, you know, you know, profile, for example, people started reaching out to me without necessarily reaching out to them. It also depends on how you present yourself on your profile, your LinkedIn, and all those things. Right? Because the way they present yourself will make people feel like they wanna talk to you, you know, and they can proactively reach out to you instead of you reaching out to them, things like that.

So you have to factors in, you know, those those things. And to me, it's a matter of no knowing where to get the information and how to to put that information out there. Yes. So I I would love to add to that. So I agree about LinkedIn and optimizing your LinkedIn so that, yes, you have recruiters reaching out to you.

Not only you reaching out to recruiters, but it is a two way street. Right? So we can have people reaching out to us. But the other thing I always say is if you're applying to a role and you're very interested in it, I this is what I do. It's worked for me in the past is and it's worked for people that I've given this advice to is, you know, if you're really interested and let's say it's at a big pharma company, go into the LinkedIn profile of the big pharma company, look underneath people on LinkedIn, and underneath the people, there's a search bar and search, you know, like HR recruiter, search, you know, people, you know, like something to do with HR that has to do with medical affairs.

Because the way it works oftentimes in big pharma companies is that they will have HR people that are specific to, you know, certain functional areas. So you can search things like that and then just start, you know, trying to connect with these people. Once you've connected with them, send them a message and say, you know, my name is so and so. I recently applied for this job. Really looking forward to, you know, hearing from the team.

Just something as simple as that. And then oftentimes, I would also recommend adding a just one sentence that says, like, my name is well, after my name is so and so. The second sentence would be something like, my experience is I have x amount of years as a clinical pharmacist, x amount of years as a, you know, in this case, a long term care, you know, pharmacist. And I recently applied to this role, something where it gives them a little bit of context as to like, okay. This is the name.

This is the person. Okay. Cool. And then the lookout for your application. The other thing when you're submitting job applications, since I'm talking about that anyway, is I would suggest only apply to jobs that have been posted within the last, like, 72 hours.

Chances are if you apply to jobs that are posted after that, they might not end up reviewing your application. You might just get an automatic rejection, which a lot of people will take, you know, very personally, but that does not mean that they, you know, were not interested in you. It doesn't mean that they weren't you know, you weren't qualified, but it just might mean that they got so many applications in the first 72 hours. They're not even gonna look, you know, past that. So that's something to keep in mind.

Also when, you know, you wanna be recognized by a recruiter, it's really important that you optimize your resume every single time you apply somewhere. So you can't just, like, have one resume and send it out everywhere. So as I mentioned, if the role is specific to cardiology, cardiometabolic health, that you have a version of your resume that's specific to that. And even more nitty gritty than that is when you have the job description, make sure you look for some of the keywords in the job description, and you put that in your resume because they're, you know, AI algorithm situation is going to look for certain keywords. And so even, like, certain companies, they don't call them KOLs.

They call them therapeutic leaders or, you know, even things as simple as that is, like, you have to do enough creeping and looking at the job description to realize, like, if you're calling it KOLs all over your resume, but their job description doesn't even use KOLs. They use therapeutic leads or therapeutic leaders or therapeutic thought leaders or something, some version of that, and you don't have that anywhere in your resume, then you're not gonna get flagged for a hiring, you know, manager or for a an even an HR interview. Right. I I agree. And I'll I'll add on top of what you just said, that, because you mentioned something very important reaching out to some of the HR recruiters on on linking, messaging them.

And I will share something that I have done that also worked for me in the past. After seeing that job application, reaching out, I have my role of reaching out I had my role of reaching out to at least 4 to 5 people from the company, at different roles. I will reach out to HR. I'll reach out to the someone would just know maybe the director. Someone was just an MSL.

And then, you know, I even went ahead and re reached out to one VP one time and do not believe that they are not reading your message. Because they may be reading they don't answer. It doesn't mean that they didn't read your message. And I will share with you that my first role, somebody that I reached out to read my message, did not reply to me. Somebody else contacted me.

And after HR said we needed someone with 5 years of experience in fact, let me tell you a little story. It's gonna be it's gonna be too short. So so this is what happened. I'm applying for a role. Someone from HR, the global HR director called me and say, hey.

Look. I mean, I I reached out on LinkedIn. He say, hey. Look. I I read your resume, but, look, this position is open for someone who has 5 years of experience.

You are not qualified for it. I said, okay. Thank you. 30 minute after, I'm getting another phone call from the same company. Now is the hiring manager calling me and asking me when?

I mean, can I talk to you? I say, yeah. Of course. He's like, okay. Can we we had that conversation, and that was it.

And he was the one asking me, are you I'm gonna go to move for another interview, the next step? I was like, yeah. I am available for it. So and when I joined the job, I'm realizing that even during the interview process, when I did the panel interview, there was a VP on that interview call. And I think she read my message, and she contacted the director for the for the job.

Then I reminded her and say, please call me this person. Even though he was listed for someone with 5 years of experience, I had 0 as a MSL, but I got a job. So don't assume that they are not reading. It's just how you present yourself. And then understanding the rule once again is very important because I got that rule because I understood what my role was, and I was able to articulate on that.

And that's when the deal was sealed for me from that phone call. Even though HR was not like, okay, you are not meeting the the basic qualification for 5 years, but I I got the role even though it was written only 5 years. So so you have to know how to present yourself. Yes. Definitely.

And something that I always say, whether it's an MSL role or any role, is that whatever is in the job description under requirements is always a recommendation. It's always a suggestion. They put that there as, like, a guide. But just because you don't have those things doesn't mean that you should not apply and and try for it. We have one final question in our in our last final minutes.

That was the quickest hour ever, but, just one final question that's come in the chat. Could you speak about the different steps of the interview process? Oh, yeah. Sure. First of all, it's not gonna be a one step interview process.

So it's not like, okay. I'm getting to, you know, some in, like, a that job where I'm just gonna meet 1 person. That's it. It's gonna be multiple steps. Now the process usually is this.

Well, you're gonna speak to a recruiter. Sometimes, you're gonna stop at a recruiter. And then based on how the recruiter sees you, they may refer you to the hiring manager. Now the hiring manager, in fact, is gonna be the person the the recruiter, first of all, wants to know mostly, okay, do you understand the role? They may not have enough information as far as the clinical aspect of the job, because they're not gonna be the one judging you on the clinical on your clinical knowledge.

But mostly on the operational can you fit can do you meet any criteria that this job has that I have in on my desk? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I think after speaking with you, you can move to the next step. They're gonna recommend you to the next step. Usually, it's like the hiring manager because, man, they wanna know clinically I mean, are you able to do this job? And then also operationally, can you perform the job on the field? When they have the feeling that, yes, this candidate is someone that I can move, you know, to the next step, that's when they're gonna move you to someone else, maybe 2 or 3 people, maybe a panel discussion, something like that.

They're gonna move you to a next step. And then, you know, that's where you're gonna have to engage with even more people from the company until the last step. Now from the beginning, the pool is always very wide. Like, you have a lot of people applying for that role. So they're gonna start, you know, you know, in you know, looking into couple of candidate.

And then then when you move to the the more you move to the next step, the less candidate you have. But you always gonna have at least 1 or 2 or 3 people that are competing for the same role. So you have to show at the end that you're gonna be the one that is fitting, to that, to that role. So at least 3 steps, but most of the time, I have done 6, 7 step depending on the company. So, and you just have to every time make sure that you are, you know, performing to the best that you have to be the the candidate that they can push into the next step.

Understand the culture of the company. Very, very important. At the end of the day, they also want someone who's gonna join the team that they're gonna enjoy working with. So you have to understand the culture. Yes.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much to everyone for your engagement, for your great questions, for all the, you know, great discussion that's going on in the chat. So if you'd like to learn more about making the transition to becoming an MSL and and you'd like some support and some guidance or even some free resources, please do not hesitate to reach out to me. You can send me a DM. You can send, you know, Dr. Siagat, also a DM, or you can head to, The MSL Academy, to, you know, schedule a free discovery call, to learn a little bit more about, about how we can help you in this process.

I'm one of the coaches at The MSL Academy™, our guests, as well as one of the coaches at The MSL Academy and actually quite a few of our alumni, that were once students and, you know, went through the program that are now, MSLs in the field now give back to to help the next generation of excited people to to join the field as well. And yeah. So thank you again to everyone who attended live. Thank you to everyone who's watching the recording right now, and we will, be back, early next year for our next office hours. We do these on a monthly basis and they will always be free.

And whenever anyone wants to come and ask a question, you're welcome to do so. Alrighty. Thank you so much, and happy holidays, everyone. Time. Thank you.

Take care. Mhmm. Thank you.