Breaking Into the MSL Role by The MSL Academy™ - Episode 3

Alright. And we are live. Thank you so much to everyone who is joining our livestream this evening. It's another episode of office hours with Dr. Swathi. And in each and every one of these episodes, we are trying to bring you value as aspiring or current MSLs.

So today, we are joined by Tiffney Palmer. I will let her introduce herself. And I I was actually gonna give a little intro, but I I think I will leave it just to you, to tell tell us a little bit about you and and what you do know. Alright. Sounds good.

Well, first of all, thank you so much, Swathi, as well as The MSL Academy™ for this opportunity to talk about what I think is one of the best career opportunities out there, which is the medical science liaison role. As you said, I'm Tiffney Palmer. I have been an MSL for almost 3 years now. Time flies when you're having fun. I'm a clinical pharmacist by training, and throughout my career, I worked across a variety of different practice settings from community practice to hospital managed care, outpatient clinics.

And I have to say that that previous experience and all of the skills that I gained from that experience, I think, have made me a better MSL. So that is the background of me. So what first got you interested in pursuing the MSL role? Because you said, you know, you worked as a clinical pharmacist in a lot of different, patient settings. So what was that was there a particular moment or was it a series of different moments that, you know, had you decide, you know, I wanna go down this path?

So a lot of people assume that as a PharmD, I was introduced to the MSL role in pharmacy school, but that is definitely not the case. It was several years into clinical practice when I was introduced to an MSL for the first time in an outpatient clinic. And in that clinic, we actually had several MSLs across several different companies who would come in fairly regularly to educate the providers and the staff on disease state updates, some therapeutic guideline updates, treatments that were coming to market or have been on market for a while and they're pursuing new indications. And building those relationships with those MSLs really piqued my interest in the career and, you know, it was just kind of fascinating to see the value that they brought to us to keep us up to date. There's always so much information coming out.

It's really difficult to stay on top of things. And it was really nice to just have someone who's an expert who you can reach out to whenever you need to to help you make those decisions for patients. And I decided that I was ready to pursue a transition from clinical practice into the MSL role, and that is how this whole journey started for me. Amazing. And so how would you describe in, you know, a few sentences, you know, what does an MSL do?

Because there might be people who are tuning in. You know, we're using these acronyms. So just to kind of level set, what exactly does an MSL do, and how would you define the role? I would say an MSL or medical science liaison, my answer to this question probably changes from day to day depending on how my day is gone. But a quick overall summary.

As an MSL, you're considered a scientific expert in a therapeutic area, and you're basically a link between the company and then the external partners. So health care providers, people in academia, clinical researchers, you're the link between the company and those people to share the science. You're also there to build a relationship between those external partners as well as the company, And then you can bring information back to the company from those engagements you have when you're having that scientific communication about unmet needs that may be out there in the field, how your data is being perceived. And the company can take that information, and then that can drive the business strategy to help meet those unmet needs or help provide that data that would give providers more confidence or help them feel better about how they're treating their patients. Amazing.

And so if we get back to your story, now that everyone understands what an MSL is, and so you heard about it, you know, through the actual MSLs coming in and and kind of giving their spiel and and serving as that link. So how did the process start for you? You know, were you initially like, oh my gosh. So excited. I'm gonna apply to all the jobs.

Did you first seek out coaching? How did it work for you? So initially, it was not a success story. I decided to start applying for open MSL roles, and I did that. I applied to many open MSL roles, and I will say for the first dozen applications, I got 100% auto rejections from those submissions, and it happened to be around that time that I reconnected with a friend from pharmacy school who'd recently made the transition from clinical practice to an MSL position.

And she talked to me about The MSL Academy™ and the success that she had, and I realized there were a lot of knowledge gaps for me. There was just a lot of information that I was not aware of when it came to transitioning into an industry position like an MSL. So I decided I needed some assistance and some coaching, and I reached out to The MSL Academy™. And I must say, that was one of the best decisions I have ever made. There's just so much involved with transitioning to industry.

There's an entirely different lingo that if you're not part of that little group of the world, you are just not privy to it. So it's really important to understand that. It was also important for me to understand that my resume when I'm applying for an everyday clinical position needs to be tailored differently when I'm applying for an MSL role. And a lot of this, information and knowledge is what I gained with The MSL Academy™, and that completely catapulted navigating the transition from clinical practice to an MSL role, and I was able to successfully land my first role. Amazing.

And how long did that process take for you? So prior to The MSL Academy™, it had been a very long time. But I actually remember it was in September of 2021 when I seeked the assistance of The MSL Academy™. And in February of 22, I was offered my first MSL position, so it was definitely a game changer for me. Wonderful.

And I'd love to hear a little bit more about the influence of of mentorship on, you know, your process so far. So that could be even before The MSL Academy™, The MSL Academy™ itself, and then maybe even after you started your role and how mentors or guides have really helped shape your career? I will say mentorship has been huge. So as I mentioned, I was not successful for quite a while pursuing the MSL role, and that can be a confidence changer. It can definitely get your spirits down, and it can even make you question if you're even qualified for the role.

So, initially, I joined The MSL Academy™. The coaches were phenomenal. The first thing in my first call that was just really showcased for me was I'm definitely qualified. I mean, I have a doctorate degree. I have been practicing clinically for years.

So a lot of the things that are involved in the MSL role, being a scientific expert, scientific communication, data interpretation, these were all things that I did in a day to day in most of my roles. I just didn't realize how to communicate that. So joining The MSL Academy™, getting a mentor for 1 to help boost my confidence, make me understand that I am more than qualified for an MSL position. That was the first step alone, in my opinion. I had to believe that I belonged in the position.

And then to have a mentor to navigate me through how to apply for these positions, how to tailor a resume, interview prepping, because interviewing with a panel of people was different than interviewing with 1 person. Going through multiple rounds of interviews is different than what a lot of people will experience in a lot of different career paths. So having mentors there where you can call them, you've gone through an interview, and maybe you didn't land a job, which I did not with my first interview. So talking with your mentor about being self aware, what is it that I need to improve on? Let's go through some mock interviews together, and having someone to be open and honest and let me know what needs to be changed and adjusted was amazing.

And even after The MSL Academy™, in my first MSL role as well as this one, I've met mentors within my companies who are really good at helping me understand how to prepare prepare for career progression. So I think it's really important when you're pursuing an MSL role and once you become an MSL to be open to coaching the entire time and be very self aware and know that there's always something that you can improve on. Yes. Absolutely. And I think this is something that comes up time and time again is, you know, whether it's our current students or students who have gone through the program, what would you say to, you know, let's say, a new student or someone considering, you know, being a part of The MSL Academy™ if they feel unqualified, because maybe they don't have any industry experience yet?

What would you say to someone like that who really, really wants to be an MSL, but perhaps doesn't feel like they have the qualifications to land the job? I will say, and this is something that I have heard from coaches in The MSL Academy™ and it has stuck with me. The job description and the job qualifications listed are recommendations. They are not set in stone. So these are things that maybe you don't match to the t, 2 plus years MSL experience, but maybe you've been in clinical practice or clinical research for 10 years, and you have been performing the same duties just in a different environment.

I would never count yourself out. Okay? The coaches at The MSL Academy™ are wonderful at making sure that you understand that you are ready. You are prepared. It's just a matter of being able to communicate and verbalize what you bring to the table and being able to show your value.

That is the most important part. You want to make sure people understand that having you on a team will be an asset. Yes. I always say the same thing that whenever you see a job description, the requirements, I always view with a different r word, which is recommendations. And so if I feel like I hit at least 20 to 30% of them, I figure why not?

And you never know the other person on the other side who's going to be reading your application because they might view it as well. Look how many transferable skills she has. Maybe we'll just give her, you know, the first round and see what happens. And so Exactly. Exactly.

It's you can't count yourself out. Absolutely. And it's it's also too you don't know who else is applying. For all you know, it's a lot of other people who maybe, you know, didn't have the mentorship or the guidance yet to figure out exactly what sort of CV they should be applying or how they should be using certain, you know, industry, you know, terminology, in the interviews and stuff to make sure that they understand the the career path. So you don't know who else they're comparing you with, and you are likely one of the the top candidates.

Exactly. And if you don't try, you'll never know what could happen. So I say step out on faith every time and and give a. Yes. Definitely.

And, you mentioned, you know, as you were going through the process, the first interview, you didn't land anything, but, you know, the next interviews were more successful. As you went through the process, what would you say are, like, the top three interview tips that you learned throughout your process? I will say the number one tip is to always be prepared. You cannot be over prepared for anything. So, typically, hiring managers will let you know a list of prospective people that you'll meet with.

Look those people up on LinkedIn. Look at their backgrounds. You may have something in common with them. Get a really good feel for what the makeup of that panel of people looks like. So always prepare, over prepare.

Same thing with the presentation. If you have to present, you want to know that presentation inside and out. You could not practice too much. It's better to be prepared for technology, still know exactly what's coming next, and you can get through that presentation, or, you know, anything could happen. So, again, over prepare, over prepare, over prepare.

And secondly, you've got to bring that confidence in with you, and that goes right back to what I've said about the coaches for The MSL Academy™. They will definitely make sure you understand just how qualified you are. And I believe once you understand it, it just emanates from you in an interview that you know that you are more than capable of the position that you've applied for. Absolutely. And then the other thing I would recommend that, actually a mentor told me about this.

And then when I did my most recent interviews, I actually found it to be very helpful, was that, you know, just anticipate the sort of questions that you will be asked. And, you know, of course, prepare for those 100% agree with what you said. But the next step up from that, which this came from my mentor, I can't take credit for it, but she said to create a slide, like, in addition to what you're presenting. And after the presentation, if they ask a question, you can just flip to that slide. And not only does it show that you're prepared, but you're anticipating what sorts of questions that, people are going to be asking, and so you can have a slide prepared with that answer.

You might not end up using those slides. I created 3 additional for a recent interview, and I ended up using one of them, but not the other 2. But it just goes to show that, you know, you are thinking about all the steps, and and anticipating, you know, what is going to be asked. And that's a huge part of the MSL role is when you're going in and you're speaking to KOLs or key opinion leaders or, you know, experts in the field, you really need to be able to anticipate what sort of questions they're going to ask so that you can be ready with the answer. 100% agree.

And as part of that preparation process, you wanna cover all the bases. Yes. And I think, you know, not only is it an interview with, like, yes. Here's your scientific presentation. You're able to articulate all of those good things.

In addition, they're thinking about, you know, how like, oftentimes, the presentation and the panels are the only way that they get to know you. And so you have to demonstrate in those opportunities, this is how I am going to come off when I speak to a health care provider. And so if you come prepared, you come ready to go, you have answers for any of their questions, they're going to extrapolate from, you know, the few times they've met you, including that experience to think, okay. This is what they're going to do when they're in the field too. Yes.

And just to piggyback off that, it's really important to bring yourself. So in addition to answering those questions and doing the presentation, show who you are because a big part of this job is building relationships and having conversations, and that needs to come across that you are capable of having conversations with all types of different people. Yes. K. Amazing.

So another question that I get all the time is about therapeutic areas. So, you know, let's say someone is a retail pharmacist or they're a clinical pharmacist. They work either across different therapeutic areas, maybe in internal medicine, or maybe they're a clinical pharmacist specializing in HIV, and they wanna become an MSL. What advice would you give to someone who feels like I either only can apply to one therapeutic area because of my background or the other side where they're like, maybe I don't have a specialty, and it's not gonna work against me? I say that we all need to really kinda take a step back and think about the entirety of our experiences going all the way back to the education.

So I practiced primarily in HIV specialty settings, and I'm now in MSL and dermatology. Those two things things seem pretty far apart, but what I will say is immunology is a base for all of that, and immunology right now is really a basis for so many different therapeutic areas and disease states. And it's really important to be able to relate what you have done and what you've had experience with in maybe a niche to a broader therapeutic area. Also, most of us who've been in clinical practice, we're dealing with patients who are complex. So you may have patients who are primarily coming to see you for HIV related concerns, but some of these patients also have diabetes.

They have hypertension. Some of these patients may be seeing an oncologist for other concerns, and you may have had to deal with these patients and, you know, do medication therapy management on a broad scale for them, so you've got experience with multiple therapeutic areas. The same with clinical research, you may have done research in multiple settings over the years. Think back to everything that you've experienced, and you want to verbalize and communicate that wide range of experience that you have, and don't, you know, put yourself in a corner. Take advantage of everything that you've been exposed to and everything that you've put the time and the effort into learning about.

Yes. And I also say to to students that, like, it's not only just those therapeutic areas. It's also about, you know, you sat down in your PhD MD, PharmD program, and you got through it because you understood how to study and how to get those grades and how to progress. So it's not even just what you did with patients, and that could be, again, far reaching and expansive or specialized, but it's actually more about that, you know, you can study and you can learn it. And so you're able to even like, whether or not you have that clinical experience, you're able to you know, if you're and also the other thing a lot of people that they don't know is that the first few months of an MSL role is just going back to school, more or less, of just reviewing all the recent studies, really getting up to date on everything as it pertains to the role and that product or that particular therapeutic area for that company.

So even if you might have, you know, be been a dermatology special specialist as a pharmacist or a physician, you know, maybe going into industry, you know, you need to hone in on that particular area. Maybe it's only atopic dermatitis or something like that where maybe you saw a few cases, but you didn't see a lot of them. So it's still going to be demonstrating how, yes, maybe I saw this, maybe I didn't. But at the end of the day, I'm here to learn, I'm here to grow, and I know how to learn quickly. That is absolutely right.

And I will say, there are so many MSLs who don't have backgrounds in clinical practice. We have PhDs on my team and on my previous team, and they are some of the most amazing MSLs because everybody brings something different to the table, and that just makes a stronger team. So whatever experiences that you have, you've definitely gotta be confident in verbalizing and showcasing those skills. Yes. And we have some great comments and and questions, in the chat.

So I wanted to hop to one of the questions. One of them says, what would be your advice for transitioning from retail directly as a retail pharmacist to an MSL role with no clinical experience? So we spoke a little bit about that briefly, but can you dive in a little more about what advice you would give to to someone like that? It looks like so it looks like this person is a pharmacist, doctor Delt. Gotcha.

Well, I will say in my experience, what truly made the difference for me was coaching and mentoring. You are amazing, I'm sure, as a pharmacist. You are caring for patients. You are helping other providers understand what's going on. But as I said before, industry does have some terminology that's going to be different than what you're used to.

There's also gonna be a few nuances with navigating the transition from a clinical role into industry. And I just think that coaching can make so much of a difference, having someone who's been there, they've gone down this journey, and they can really kind of hold your hand to help you navigate your way through the journey as well. So coaching is huge. Secondly, it's just remembering that you are qualified. You definitely belong in the role if it's the role that you want.

Just understanding how to communicate that to other people. But, yeah, coaching is number 1. That was at least number 1 for me. It made the difference. Incredible.

And, we do have oh, we have the a few other comments just saying that you're the perfect candidate, and and you're so eloquent. I mean I agree. No. This was not me prior to coaching. Let's start there.

And that's another thing I'll say about The MSL Academy™. Having a support system, I think, is huge. This is a very competitive role to make that attempt to achieve, and you if you're like me, you're gonna get some rejections. You may get a lot of rejections as I did, and you'll need someone to remind you that, you know, this is a marathon. It's not a sprint for most people, and you can still do it.

And people who will sit down with you when you're on camera and talk to you about how you're presenting yourself, what type of posture you have, there are just so many things that I think we don't realize we need someone to help us with, and coaching made the difference for me. Great. And, you know, thinking more about, like, what makes a successful MSL, I would love to hear from you. You know, what are the top three skills you would say that make the really successful MSL stand out from the rest of the pack? Again, I would say this depends on the day, how I would answer the question, but I will definitely say number 1 on any day.

It's gonna be your people skills. Whether you're dealing with internal stakeholders or external thought leaders, it's really important to understand how to communicate, to understand how to listen, and, this is something that came up on the last call, active listening, because you want to understand what it is that the person you're talking to needs and how you can provide for that need. So active listening with those people skills. Another thing that's really important is emotional intelligence with those people skills. You need to read the room.

Everybody is not going to need the same type of communication. Some people may be more introverted. They may want things short, sweet, and to the point, and you need to provide whatever it is that they need in that format. Whereas some people may be very extroverted, very talkative, and you may need to do a little more listening to figure out what it is that they need and try to work the conversation into the scientific exchange to provide that information to them. Some people are visual learners.

Maybe you need to be prepared to pull out visual aids to make sure that the person understands what you're talking about. But emotional intelligence, knowing how to communicate to a wide variety of people, and that is something that I think we all work on lifelong. It is something that every time I go into an engagement, I'm thinking about my people skills, how I'm going to relate to this person, and maybe I need to adapt to the conversation as we go along. So, people skills are number 1. Time management is number 2.

Coming from a clinical role where I had a 9 to 5, my schedule was set typically set by people in leadership above me was much different from the MSL role, which oftentimes is very autonomous. You are responsible for your schedule and meeting your goals, completing your projects, getting all of your administrative work done, taking into time, time for travel to and from your different engagements, congresses and conferences that may take several days out of your week, and you have really got to work on making sure that you're fitting all those professional scheduled items in along with your personal items. You're not burning yourself out. You're balancing everything, and you are achieving your goals. So the people skills and the time management are top 2.

Amazing. And you mentioned a little bit about travel. Can you speak a little bit about, you know, your, you know, usual week in the life? I know day in the life is absolutely so different every day, but, like, you know what? A typical week in the life, I think our our listeners would love to hear about that.

A typical week in the life, I would say, for my role, travel is going to happen almost every day. Now travel could be within a 1 hour radius of my home or travel could be within 4 to 5 hours of my home. It just depends on the thought leaders that I'm going to engage with. It takes a lot of planning, I would say, and that is something that you learn and you get better at as you go along in the MSL role. So if I'm gonna be 5 hours away, I wanna maximize my time.

I want to try to see as many people in that territory as possible. If I'm gonna be closer to home, I wanna maximize that time as well, and maybe that will allow me to sneak in some virtual visits as well because I have more time at my desk in front of my laptop. So it's all about planning, planning, planning. And I will say there are perks with traveling. You get to see different areas of the country.

You get to meet different people. You just make the most of what you have at all times. Definitely. And you mentioned virtual visits as well. So I would love to hear what is the proportion, especially, I know before, you know, the pandemic, it was very, very focused on in person, but would love to hear a little bit more about the proportion of in person versus virtual.

And and is that a decision you get to make, or is that a decision that comes from the higher ups of, like, you know, we prefer that you see x y z person in person versus a virtual engagement? I think for a lot of positions, it's a combination of what comes from the higher ups as well as what works best for each individual person. Okay. Virtual for me is definitely second place to in person face to face conversations. I just feel like people get more comfortable when they're in person, and it's easier to build the relationship and continue it when you have those face to face conversations.

But virtual definitely has its place. There will be times when, you know, travel arrangements are out of your control. Maybe it's the weather and you can't get on a flight, or maybe the thought leader you intended to talk to had to go out of the country at the last minute. But virtual has its place. I have seen virtual MSL roles that are popping up.

I've seen those. So I think that that is going to be an evolution somewhat of the role in a sense, but, virtual is an option. I prefer face to face. I think most companies now that we have gone past the COVID pandemic do prefer face to face engagements. But as I said, it will always depend on each person's individual situation and circumstance.

Okay. That makes sense. And you mentioned the evolution of the role. Can you speak a little bit about some of the trends that you've seen in the past 3 years and some of the trends that, you know, you think will influence medical affairs or or the MSL role in general? Yeah.

Sure. So I will say, again, the virtual aspect of the role, I have seen some virtual positions. So I think that is going to be a trend that we may start to see more of just because we now know we can do so many things virtually. In that same sense, AI is definitely making its mark in the industry as with so many different industries. And I believe we're all going to have to learn how to incorporate AI into our day to day.

We need to learn how to use it to our benefit and, at the same token, show our value and, you know, that there's still a place for that scientific expert who needs to leverage that AI or who just uses it as an adjunct to what we bring to the table. So I think that's going to be one of our biggest evolutions and changes, and we're seeing that in our day to day lives anyway. So Wait. I would love to hear a little bit more about that. So the companies that you've been at, you know, are they moving forward with certain initiatives?

I don't know if you're able to talk about any of them, but I'm so intrigued to hear how that how companies are leveraging AI. Well, I think as a whole, a lot of companies, especially when you start thinking about the vast number of manuscripts and publications that are available, and a lot of companies are leveraging ways to use AI to browse and peruse through all of that information a little bit more efficiently. I think that's something we're seeing just across the board. So it's just really gonna be about people making sure they're familiar with how to utilize AI and being competent and, you know, fully aware of all of those tools that are coming available. Wow.

And and this is just like a personal interest, so I have to ask another question about it. So is it is it that the companies themselves are creating these tools, or they're, you know, finding tools that are being created externally and then employing the tools internally? I think just across the board and even outside of pharma, I think most companies are trying to figure out ways that they can implement AI into their own tools. Okay. I'm trying to think of example.

I know at different congresses and conferences, there are different booths that have kiosks and different things that are set up that are utilizing AI to answer questions, for people. So I think we're gonna see a lot more of that as we go forward. So, again, I think it's gonna be about everyone getting comfortable with AI and taking the time to become familiar with those platforms and learn how to navigate them. Yeah. And I think it's all about, you know, how can these be used as an adjunct?

It's not like AI is gonna come swoop in and replace MSLs. It's more of how can MSLs use these tools to be better MSLs, but also provide better, you know, response time and and insights and everything to to the internal team too. Exactly. Mhmm. Okay.

Great. If anyone else has any other questions, please do not hesitate to put them in the chat. I have plenty more, but, this time is for all of you. So any any questions you all have, the ones so far have been great. So, please keep them coming.

In the meantime, I would love to ask, you know, so you worked in a different therapeutic area, right, to begin with, and then you transitioned over to dermatology? So I've actually been since I've been in industry, I've been in dermatology. Prior to in clinical practice, my background was HIV and infectious disease. Oh, okay. Yes.

Okay. Amazing. Because one of the things I'm always curious about is hearing about MSLs in certain therapeutic areas and how that experience has been for them. So I don't know if you're willing to talk a little bit about that and how, you know, dermatology and the landscape there and any exciting new things that's that are going on in the space. So I absolutely love dermatology.

I will say that I believe thought leaders in dermatology are amazing. You are talking about some brilliant people. Typically in dermatology, very, you know, very people people. It's really nice to be able to go in and have conversations that are just genuine. And dermatology as a whole, there's a lot coming out in the immunology realm, to treat so many different immune mediated diseases in dermatology.

So there is just so much information that is out there and that is available, and I think that is an amazing part of the MSL role is derms truly know the value that we bring to help, you know, navigate through some of that information, especially as an MSL being an unbiased source of that information. I'm here to share science, and, you know, it's great when you feel like you are helping providers just have a little bit more information in their toolbox when they need to make those decisions about what's best for their patients. So, yeah, the immunology space in dermatology is booming right now. I think that's across a lot of therapeutic areas. We're just realizing that immune mediated pathways are really making a difference in patients' lives.

So derm is exciting right now as many other MSLs across different TAs are probably gonna say the same thing. No. It's good to hear that that you're enjoying it and that you're passionate about it. And I think that's what that's another one of the top skills I think that, you know, makes a great MSL is someone who's just excited about the science and the evolution and the trends and what's next and exciting in in the space. Agreed.

And you know what? I think that is one of the things about the MSL role that is so amazing. You are always up to date on what's new, and it's really exciting to be able to walk into a conversation, whether it's in an office or at a restaurant, and you are bringing something that people really want and that they need. It it just it feels great to always be on the forefront of what's coming out. Some people like to be on the forefront of fashion.

We like to be on the forefront of science. I feel like you should trademark that. Amazing. And then I wanna circle back to something that you mentioned briefly earlier, so about career progression, in the MSL role. So can you talk a little bit about what the I know every company kind of calls it something different, but what is the the general career progression for someone, who starts off as an MSL?

What happens next? So, typically, most companies and a few use different names for these positions, but most companies will have basically tiers, if you will, of MSL. So you've got your MSL, medical science liaison, and then in a lot of companies, you'll move to being a senior MSL, and there may be a senior MSL 1, senior senior MSL 2, and followed by an executive MSL or a principal MSL depending on the company. But there are definitely, different paths for MSLs to continue to progress. I think one thing that's really important if you are interested in career progression is making sure that you are talking to your manager on a very regular basis about your performance, things you can do to improve, opportunities that may be there for different projects and different assignments that allow you to show your value to your team.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having those conversations and letting it be known that you are interested in that type of progression. As a matter of fact, it also shows your company that you are invested Mhmm. Which is always a good thing. So career progression, I think, is very important. Having that relationship with your manager is important.

And then having additional mentors to talk to about that career progression, is huge. Because if you know an executive MSL, they can tell you what their journey looks like. They can tell you what that path is, and they can help guide you in the same direction. So, again, this goes back to networking, and this goes back to building those relationships. And what what's the difference between the different roles and, like, the responsibilities of these different tiers?

So, typically, as you move up from an MSL to senior MSL to executive MSL, you are definitely going to be expected, to do more for your team. So there will be opportunities to be a leader when it comes to team congress attendance or a leader when it comes to clinical trial, point roles and different things of that nature. So as you progress, the expectations increase. But, of course, as you progress, you should have gotten more experience to prepare you for those increased expectations. So that I would think is a huge part is documenting what you've done.

So as you progress and as you pick up projects and as you start to get more experience, make sure that you are communicating what you've done and you are keeping up with what you've done. So when the time comes and someone asks you about your value to the team, you can easily communicate that to them. Yes. And that that's what I wanted to add as well was, like, you know, you can be doing all these great things, but our managers are busy. And so Yep.

They might like, in the heat of the moment, we tell them something. They're excited for us. They pat us on the back, you know, virtually or in person, but, you know, then they might forget because they have other direct reports, other things going on in their personal and professional lives. So, I always recommend on a weekly basis to just have an ongoing Google Sheet of, like, if there was a big win that week or, like, you move towards some sort of goal so that you can check-in the following week and be like, okay. Did we close that out?

Can I add that officially to, you know, my list of of achievements, or list of, you know, deliverables that went really well, or I brought in this really great KOL or this really great project, and this helped the team? And, just keeping tabs on all of those things. So I think also we as professionals, we also have a lot of stuff going on. And so we think, oh my gosh. Of course, we're gonna remember.

And then just being able to have that document, sometimes I refer to it and I'm like, wow. Okay. Like, that that's a good reminder even for me. Like, when I've been able to do it as well. Mhmm.

Yeah. It's always good to remind yourself of the work you've done. You deserve a pat on the back from yourself as well. Yes. Definitely.

Okay. Amazing. If anyone else has any other questions, please feel free to put them in the chat. I will continue with mine, though. So, the next thing that that I would like to know is, you know, someone who's contemplating this path, you know, now that you've been in the role for 3 years, you're thinking about career progression.

You know? What are the three things you wish you knew before you started this entire journey? Three things that I wish that I knew. I would say the first is you can never be over prepared. I think I said this about the interview process, but even as an MSL, it's a constant learning path.

Even if you have mastered content, you still need to go back and refresh yourself on that content. As new things come available, you need to stay up to date on those because the conversations you're having are going to be with some of the most brilliant minds in your therapeutic area. And the conversation may start with topic a and easily transition to topic b, and you need to be abreast of a lot of the things or everything that's going on in your therapeutic area so you can have those conversations and you can bring something to the table, so you can get something to take back as well as far as insights go. So constantly learning. This is a different type of job.

Every day you are still a student. The second thing I would say is self awareness. That's important in all aspects of life, but I believe as an MSL, you are tested on your self awareness almost daily. You're going to go in and talk to some amazing people, and there are gonna be times when you don't have an answer. You cannot it's not possible to know everything all the time.

You need to be aware. It's perfectly fine to say that you don't know something. Go back and find the answer if you can and follow-up and, provide that information, but just being aware of how you're presenting yourself, especially in those hard situations where you just don't know, and it's your job to know, and that is okay. Just make sure that you are confident enough to admit that. Go back and find out what you need to know and bring that back to the table when you can.

I think that makes people more confident in you than anything else is when you can show that you know what you don't know. And what else? Do everything you can. This is a role that is not as defined as some other roles where, you know, there's a very narrow list of the things you do every day. There are so many opportunities as an MSL to shine your light.

There are gonna be projects on your team. There may be opportunities to step outside of your team in medical and maybe go work with the research and development team, or maybe go work with the marketing team, take advantage of those opportunities. You can never do too much. Of course, you don't wanna burn yourself out, but definitely take advantage of any opportunity that allows you to learn something new and show everybody how amazing you are. You can't do enough of that.

So that would be top 3. Mhmm. And you mentioned burnout. I would love to hear do you have any tips on on how people can avoid burnout? Because I know, you know, if we're in the MSL role or if we're interested in it, I mean, these are some high performing, high achieving people.

And so I know that we always wanna add more things to our plate because, you know, we're just genuinely interested in a lot of different things and contributing to different teams. So, you know, how do you mitigate burnout or, you know, like, avoid like, what are some of your tips to avoid getting to that point? I definitely say it's important to here's that self awareness again, but you've gotta be honest and realistic with yourself. So if you've already got a full plate, and someone offers you an opportunity for something additional to add to that plate, you can either say no, which is perfectly fine. And when you do that, just explain that, you know, this is a great opportunity.

But right now, I also have a, b, and c going on. I would love to come back to this in the future if the opportunity is still available. Or let's say you've got something going on and you're interested. You're truly interested in the opportunity at hand. Maybe there's a chance that this could be something that's divvy between multiple members of the team.

So maybe would it just be a solo activity, or could we bring in a colead or a co captain for this project? And oftentimes, management what I've learned in industry is management is very adaptable. Management is very flexible. No one will know that you're thinking these things if you don't ask. So just take into consideration everything you have on your plate professionally and personally, because we do have lives outside of work, and then just figure out how you can make it happen.

Maybe not right now, but in the future. Maybe now, but with these tweaks or with some additional help. That is how I would approach most things, that are coming as opportunities. Yeah. That's a great I'm sorry.

And the just the you know, some of the final thoughts, you know, what are you looking forward to, you know, the most in the next 5 years of of your career? I'm excited to see where my career goes. I am loving where I am, and there are just so many opportunities to continue to learn in this role. And I'm looking forward to possibly taking opportunities to even learn more outside of just my little MSL role, but maybe shadowing people who are in other medical affairs roles. So our home office medical team, some of our medical advisors, and just learning how this entire wheel of medical affairs keeps on turning, and that will just, you know, put a little bit more in my arsenal to make me a better MSL.

Great. And then any final, you know, parting thoughts, like, one final message, one thing you wanna leave our, listeners with? I would say that you get out of anything what you put into it. So if you are interested in transitioning into an MSL role, I will say that it will require a lot of time. It's going to require a lot of effort.

But, again, if you put your all into it, I think that anybody could be successful, and it's definitely a rewarding experience. So Alright. So awesome. Well, thank you so much. Yeah.

Does anyone have any last minute questions or anything in here? We are happy to answer them. We can wait a few minutes and see if anyone has any questions coming in. Can give it a minute or so. People are typing.

And then and then we can close out. But I really do appreciate everyone coming live. I see the, you know, number of people on here being engaged and, sending in comments and questions. We always appreciate that. I mean, the reason that we do these office hours events on a monthly basis and make them free and put them on LinkedIn is just so that we can get the word out there about the MSL role and help people who are interested in making the transition.

Because as we talked about today, it's very competitive. There's a lot of people. Once they found out about the role, they're like, oh my gosh. Like, is there some way that I can get involved and do that? Are you available to mentor?

I think that might be to you Tiffany. My goodness. I will say this. The best mentors I have had have come from The MSL Academy™. So I'd say definitely look into the opportunities there.

Definitely. Yeah. I can actually update my headline to put the website in here. So now it's in my headline. So, yeah, it's just the mslacademy.com.

Actually, Tiffany is one of our coaches. So, if you do enroll, and become a part of The MSL Academy™, then, there's a high likelihood that you'll end up working with her, because she takes part in a lot of our professional development sessions, our master classes, q and a sessions that we have for students. And again, we're all about how can we help people transition into the MSL career. And then once they're there, how can we support them along that journey as well? Alright.

Yes. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much to everyone who joined live, and, of course, we will download the recording, post it on YouTube. So if you ever wanna reference any of this amazing information and insights from Tiffany again, it will be on YouTube. So you can check it out there.

And, yes, until next time. We will be back, this time next month with another one of our coaches to chat about their experience and continue to hopefully bring value to all of you. Thanks, everybody. This was great. Thank you.

Bye bye. Bye.