Breaking Into the MSL Role by The MSL Academy™ - Episode 2

All right. And we are live. So it's StreamYard is an incredible platform because we're able to see all of the comments and everything come through, right in the StreamYard, platform. So as people are coming in, we can get started. Okay.

Awesome. Yeah. I think we can wait about 1 minute just as people start trickling in. Let me just double check on LinkedIn right now. If you are tuning in live and you're able to, please put in the chat, you know, your name.

I guess I could see your name from LinkedIn, but your name, where you're tuning in from, and if you are a current MSL or you're interested in learning more about becoming 1. Alright. All right. I think we will just get started. So thank you so much for being with us today, Anita.

We have we are so lucky to be with Anita today. For those of you who have watched our previous episodes, Anita is one of our alumni from The MSL Academy™. So she went through the program and she also oh, yay. We have some foot coming in the chat. So, she, went through the program and now is a coach with The MSL Academy™.

So what we'll do today, it'll be an open free flowing conversation. So I'll ask Anita some questions. But if anyone who is attending live has any questions, this is your moment to ask. You can ask myself, you can ask Anita. We are happy to answer any questions you may have.

All right, so let's just jump right in. Anita, do you mind introducing yourself and telling me a little bit about telling me and our guests a little bit about your educational background? Yeah, of course. And I just wanted to also say hi to everybody. And thank you to Swati for setting up this session and for everything you're doing for aspiring and current MSLs that are eager to learn.

I'm really excited to be here. So just a little bit of background about myself. My name is Anita Lee, and I have been an MSL for the past 4 years. I'm a clinical pharmacist by training. Just going back a little bit, I grew up with a dad who was constantly networking and creating relationships to grow his small business, and he had me, join and speak at his networking group starting at the age of 10.

So before you know it, I was developing communication skills, becoming social, and learning the importance of not only, building relationships, but maintaining relationships as well. I carried that through a long way through my life and, through pharmacy school. And so after pharmacy school, I did a PGY 1 Pharmacy Residency and practiced as a clinical pharmacist for about 3 years. And that's where I really learned how to better understand the clinical care pathway and the patient journey. And then eventually I discovered the MSL role in the medical affairs space after meeting an MSL, that was at my hospital and then also, diving a little deeper.

And, you know, I was able to also dive deeper into, finding ways to transition in from a clinical pharmacist to the MSL space. And that's kind of where I met, the people that are part of the MSL Academy. So I'm happy to be here and answer any questions. Amazing. Amazing.

So that's one of the questions I was gonna ask you is, you know, how did you first hear about the MSL role? And what was it about the position that got you excited and that got you very interested to learn more and to dive in? Yeah. I think my first interaction with an MSL was, you know, at my hospital. It was someone who was really warm and friendly but also very knowledgeable about the therapeutic area that she was there presenting on.

And so I was intrigued and, you know, started speaking with her after the presentation, and she gave me more information about the MSL role. Now after that, I was able to, find a few more people in my network already who had already transitioned to the MSL role. And so when we talk about networking, I think it really started there at the very beginning, and it's the reason why I actually looked into, further becoming into an MSL and then also, was able to find out about having a coach that could help me transition into the career, a little with a little more support. You know, coming from a clinical pharmacist background, I didn't quite have as much training or information about medical affairs. I didn't have, and I wanted to build a solid foundation.

So that's a little bit about how I moved, into wanted to transition, but, you know, I was looking for mentorship. I was looking for, someone to provide me with some more guidance, and I was ready to hit the ground running. So I think when I, you know, reflected on what I really wanted in my career, I realized that, you know, this is exactly what I wanted. I was really motivated to to go for it. Amazing.

And for people who are attending, you know, they might have heard the the acronym MSL. I know we're throwing it around quite a bit. But would you be open to just defining it for everyone and, you know, how like, of course, people can Google what an MSL is, but what does an MSL mean to you, and how have you seen that play out? Yeah. So an MSL is a medical science liaison, and I like to think about it as the bridge.

So the bridge between the pharmaceutical company but also the community, the providers in the community, in the therapeutic area, and on the ground that are actually seeing patients and practicing. And it's where I come in would be someone that could bridge that any gaps between the 2 and also bring in those insights from the people who are on the ground that are practicing and bring them back to the company to see how, you know, the goals can strategically align and how to improve that for eventually the end goal is for our patients. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you for that.

Because the last time we were chatting and I was on another, you know, podcast, we were we were speaking about being an MSL. And I was like, wait. What about the people who might not know exactly what that is and really what where the MSL sits within the entire schema of of pharma? So, yes, thank you for that. And so you were talking about, you know, you were ready to hit the ground running once you found out about the MSL role.

You were ready to do it. What led you to, you know, learn about The MSL Academy, and what was it, you know, that was the final, the final, you know, tick box where you were like, yes. I'm ready to to say yes and to move forward. So as I mentioned before, you know, I had a friend who has already had gone through the program. So I think a lot of it is, you know, networking and just, you know, your relationships that you have and maybe someone that has gone through the program and I I saw success.

So that is something that really, helped push me into into the MSL Academy because it was it was, someone that successfully landed, you know, an MSL role and, it was somewhere where I could really see myself. So after a lot of, you know, reflection and also a lot of, just thinking, I really knew that this was something I wanted. It was a time commitment, and I was willing to do that. So I think it's really important to know that, like, jumping from a position that you're already in from the outside to the MSL world isn't necessarily like a stroll in the park. There's a lot of time that needs to be involved, and a lot of knowledge to be gained because there is a little bit of different, I guess lexicon that's involved and different, kind of mindset.

So, you know, you have to also put on your business hat, but also keep on your scientific hat. And so I like to think of it kind of as a a social scientist is, what I like to think about. But with all of that, you know, I knew that I really wanted to do a coaching program, and I really knew I wanted some, guidance on how to move forward and be successful to gain a position in, the better fair space. Amazing. And so as you were going through the program, what were some of the key takeaways or some of the key things that you learned throughout the journey that you think really helped you stand apart to land your first role?

Yeah. I'm look I'm thinking back now, and I will say that, one of the things that I really valued was the the series, the webinar series, and the the different modules that were created for the program. It gave me a solid foundation of kind of where, you know, the where medical affairs and, like, the positioning of the medical affairs department within a pharmaceutical company, stands. And then also, I was able to kind of build my network. I was able to have small group, sessions where we all shared our experiences and where we were in the process, and I think that really helped.

Because when you're going through something like this, when you're trying to jump from, you know, your clinical role or if you're a PhD and you're not really in the space, it feels kind of lonely, and it it can feel a little, just lonely is, I guess, the best word to describe it. And to have someone to kind of, talk to, to bounce ideas off of, to reflect with, I think is very helpful. I also did have some one on one sessions that really helped prepare me for interviews. And so I think along with all that combined, it helped me gain confidence and, it helped me, I guess, build a solid foundation for me to transition over. And it it took me I think a common question I get is, like, how long did it take you to transition from, from, you know, clinical pharmacist role to, going into the MSL role.

And I think it varies. It depends on how much time that individual wants to put into a program or put into the application process. But for me, it took about 7 months. It's something that I really dedicated a lot of time into and energy. And at times, I'm not gonna lie, like, I was very tired and, it's almost like a second job or a side hustle.

So, you know, you you have to also I think also listen to your gut and also listen to your body. And so if you need to take a break, give yourself grace and to do that, but also be motivated enough to push yourself to continue to apply an interview, even though, you know, it's it can be a tiring process. Absolutely. I'm so happy that you brought that up because I think that that's something that a lot of people go through that roller coaster of a process where they get excited, they're in the program, they're applying, and then, you know, they might not hear anything, or they might not hear anything positive for a few months. Then they take a break, they come back rejuvenated, excitement, you know, reignited, and then they're ready to to hit the ground running again, and go through that process.

And so I do think it takes some of those waves, just because it is such a transition from being either a clinical pharmacist, another sort of health care professional, a clinical researcher. It really is quite a different role. But one of the things that I think is so important is to talk about some of the transferable skills, that we can bring from these other roles. So of course, you can't speak for, you know, everyone, all the different practitioners out there and all the the researchers, but I would love to hear from your background as a clinical pharmacist. What are some of the transferable skills that you found were, like, absolutely indispensable when starting and succeeding in your role now?

So absolutely great points, Swati. There are a few that, like, come straight to my mind. And, you know, as a clinical pharmacist, I was on rounds with physicians where we were collaborating in multidisciplinary, teams and working together with the different health care team members, and not only the physicians, but also the nurses and, nutrition and everyone else on that team. And so I think teamwork is definitely something that comes to mind, but also providing scientific expertise. So, you know, whatever it is that, you're you you have a knowledge in, specialty, in, you know, for me, medications and safety and also, just keeping in mind anything for when medications were started, any monitoring that needed to be done.

So bringing that to the forefront whenever I was, in these team settings, having those good communication skills. So being purposeful with my communication, but also maybe a little persuasive because, there are a lot of ways that, you know, you you wanna make use of your, communication. Right? Like, you don't wanna just communicate with no goal in sight. So being purposeful and persuasive are something that I think about whenever I'm thinking about my communication skills.

And then also, I think time management is very important as well. That's a big one because we are in a role where we're planning travel, planning meetings, planning our time. And although there is flexibility in the role, there's also a lot to do. And so if you're not doing you're not spending your time appropriately, then, you know, your to do list can really start to pile up. Yes.

Definitely. And I think that, you hit on quite a few, you know, different important skills that not only are transferable but are also skills that make a successful MSL. So that leads me to my next question. You know, what are the top three things you think now that you've, you know, transitioned into the role, you've been in the role for 4 years, what do you think are the top three things that makes someone successful at being an MSL? Yeah.

That is a great question. So my first one that comes to mind is being, I think highly emotionally intelligent. I think emotional intelligence in this field is extremely valuable. Being able to read the room, be respectful of people's time, but also be able to, I guess, continue to establish that relationship and in a way that you become credible and you build that trust over time. Relationships are not easy.

You know, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of time. So I think that having this high emotional intelligence is one way to to help to really help you in your MSL role. Another thing is being flexible and having that ability to, be comfortable with change. You know, when we're thinking about the MSL role, we are receiving strategy from maybe the leadership team and maybe our directors. And so things can really change on an instant where, you know, we we were going moving towards one goal or one strategy, and all of a sudden, because of some other circumstances, things have pivoted, and we need to also pivot with it.

And we need to be comfortable with that and be willing to be willing don't be resistant to it. I think another last one I think is I'll go with, like, enthusiasm because that along with the enthusiasm enthusiasm you bring with, like, the science, the data, and also to the relationship is very important because what a provider is providers in the field, they they don't always have a lot of time for, you know, just you don't wanna waste their time, and they don't have a lot of time to for you to, you know, just sit around and not give them something that maybe that's valuable in terms of, like, data or understanding their interest or understanding, you know, where, what kind of projects or, committees or advisory boards. Sorry. Not committees. Advisory boards that, you know, they that might align with them.

So being able to have that foresight to see that. Definitely. Yes. And one of the things that you've brought up multiple times is, you know, building relationships. Even like as a young child, you are already going to these networking events.

I would love to hear some of the strategies that you've implemented in terms of like building those relationships with KOLs and then not only building them, but then, like, fostering them and having them, you know, even grow. Yeah. And I think this topic came up on one of your last talks just about consistency, and I think that that is so important. So, you know, having an introduction is great, but also being able to build upon an introduction and, understanding, again, what the interests are of the person that you're interacting with. Is it going to be data?

Is it going to be being part of, you know, different projects or advisory boards or, maybe even posters? That's something that I think is very important, when you're, you know, trying to maintain these relationships. I think another thing is to pay attention to their movements as well. So are they gonna be at a conference that's coming up? Are you gonna show up for them?

Because, you know, it's okay for for them to it's good that, you know, they can help you out, but what can you do for them as well? It's a two way street. Relationships are a two way street. So I think that's, something to keep in mind when you're maintaining a relationship. Definitely.

And then as someone is going through, let's say they are a clinical pharmacist, they're a health care professional now, what are what are some of the ways that they can begin to work on some of these skills outside of, you know, the conventional, you know, like becoming an MSL? What can they do in between, or even, like, tomorrow to start practicing some of these things? I think what comes to mind is, you know, leveraging your LinkedIn, social media. I think that's so important. Part of being an MSL is to start creating these relationships with people that you don't necessarily know, and that's what LinkedIn will help you do.

So reaching out to those individuals, and trying to to, you know, open it up to see if they are open to having, a quick conversation with you. But coming back and saying, what can I do for you? Like, if there's anything, let me know. So it's not just, again, a one way street. I think they can look, people who are interested right now can look into conferences and networking with that.

You know, live conferences are great. Virtual ones, I think, aren't as, valuable or useful when it's, you know, everyone is off off their screen or on mute. I think the live conferences, are really helpful. And I Sidoni, I think, had mentioned some in the past too, but, you know, medical affairs professional society is one that, we've talked about swapping. And then also, they always have local events, so that's something you can look into to see if, a local chapter is hosting a local event that you could, you know, go to.

Yeah. I would second both of those. I recently went to the to a conference, so the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association conference. And some of the best conversations I had were, you know, at the tea station where I'm making my green tea and just speaking to the woman next to me. She, you know, works at a big pharma company, and we're just having a great conversation about the recent session, but also then exchange cards, and you never know where that conversation can lead.

So I agree. Like, going to those conferences, it's not even necessarily who's speaking on the panels or who's speaking on the stage. It's, you know, who are you gonna just run into at the tea station or run into in line for lunch and different things like that. So I feel like because of COVID and everything, I hadn't experienced so much of that until recently, until going to that conference again. And I was like, wow, this was such like a fulfilling experience for me as someone who like loves to create relationships, loves to meet new people.

I was like, wow, I definitely wanna do more of this moving forward so that I can continue to engage and like build these relationships relationships that I've made on LinkedIn are so meaningful. They've maybe started, quote, unquote, virtually, but now I've met them in person and we've become colleagues and friends and and all of that. So it's like I'm not trying to put, you know, LinkedIn, potential relationships or, you know, creating some sort of inroads there as like a negative thing or not as great as in person. But I do think there is just a different level of the number of people you can meet in such a short period of time at a conference. I think LinkedIn is a great tool, and it's, you know, again, it's a tool.

But taking that beyond LinkedIn and being able to eventually, you know, see someone in a face to face setting is going to it's like it's a different level of connection. And, I think that's something that hopefully, you know, since post COVID, I know a lot of people have forgotten about it, and I I did too. But once you start doing it again, you realize, you know, how important it is and, how much it it ends up benefiting you. So Yeah. And I love that as a recommendation for someone that is thinking about transitioning into becoming an MSL.

But in the meantime, how can they continue to build that network of people? Whether or not that network is pertinent to medical affairs or becoming an MSL, that's that's not the point. It's more of like, how can you stretch that muscle of, you know, the outreach and the creating the relationship and continuing that relationship and stuff, I just think will serve you so well. And I I I would say it's something that you could even talk about on an interview. Yeah.

And I think there's other skills while you're in these, social face to face settings such as active listening or finding, you know, similarities between you and this other person that you can actually start, I guess, enhancing and and and, I guess, strengthening because I'm sure some of it's there. But when you're in a, real life setting, it's definitely a little different. And and active listening, that's a huge one that I actually forgot to mention earlier, but that's so important when you're building relationships and maintaining them because it means that, you know, you are actually not just, you're not just there with a person, but you're actually internalizing what they're saying. You're hearing them, and then you're actually providing something back that maybe, you know, helpful for them or that you can actually, be a resource for to them for. So I think, that's one I forgot, and that's a huge one that I always try to keep in the back of my mind.

So I wanted to I wanna add that in there. Yes. Definitely. And then, in terms of, you know, as you made the transition to becoming an MSL, what were some of what were or maybe are some of the most challenging things that, you know, come to you know, that are part of the role? I would love to hear a little bit about some of the challenges in being an MSL, whether that's from, you know, the the company perspective, whether that's from just the role itself and being, you know, from a cross functional perspective.

Would love to hear your your take on that. One of the challenges that comes to mind that I think not only, you know, I I've run into but maybe other MSLs is that, you know, access access to providers or, you know, those top tier opinion leaders. It can be difficult and, you know, even just starting those relationships. And so I think something that's real that has helped me is is to get creative. It's helped me look for different ways to find these providers other than just to, like, email them and email a generic email or just one follow-up email.

It's really looking for them and what you know, where they're attending at conferences, if they're at local local conferences, being able to maybe stop by the office and see if, you know, that's a way to get in. I think just being creative, meeting them in the morning before they start their day for maybe a cup of coffee or later in the evening outside of their, you know, just clinic schedule. I think those are really important things to think about and just, leveraging also your network and, who, you know, who, you know so that you can maybe get an introduction. I think those are important too. There's a lot of ways to get creative on, ways to access hard to reach, opinion leaders.

And I, you know, I think it's, again, important to find out their interest and making sure that they align with your companies. And so that's something that I know that I had to learn, and I'm still learning on, whenever I'm interacting with, external stakeholder. Great. Yeah. And, I know a little bit we talked offline about this.

I would love to ask you, now is before you mentioned that your, your previous role, with being an MSL, you were focused on FDA approved products, but now you've kind of transitioned to, more of a pipeline focused role. So I'd love for if you could talk about kind of the similarities, the differences, and how an MSL plays a role in both of those contexts. Yeah. And so I will I just transitioned over to what, is a pipeline MSL role, as you mentioned. I am thoroughly enjoying this role, and it also, has to do a little bit more with how I support clinical trials and research since we don't have have a FDA approved product that we're supporting right now.

There's a lot of rules and regulations that are a little different than if I did have a product that I was currently supporting that's in the market. So the, previous to that, I was supporting, 2 different products. And so, you know, learning how to work with my commercial colleagues was very important. Currently, in my role, I don't quite have a commercial colleague, so that cross, cross functional collaboration, is going to be expected later down the line than, what it was for me previously. And then also, you know, learning also more how how to work with my marketing colleagues.

That's a little different as well. Being less involved in more of the clinical trials, but more so involved in maybe, phase 4 post marketing clinical trials. And currently, I'm I'm in a role where, you know, it's it's all pipeline, so we're developing our phase 2, phase 3 programs. And so, it's been a it's been a little shift, but I love kind of the the the more research heavy side and, using my skills to support my, clinical studies unit there. I'm so glad you're able to talk about that and share that with our audience because that is something that I only recently heard about a few years ago is having that differentiation of, you know, you're an internal thought leader, helping the internal stakeholders, more than the actual the external stakeholders.

Right? And so that's like it's a shift, but at the end of the day, it's still a lot of the same skill set. So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing and all of that. Is there anything else, you know, speaking about those 2 different roles as you've transitioned between one and the other, that's important for for people to know, especially if they're looking to apply for a role and they see, oh, it's called pipeline or it's called something. Are there any other sorts of MSL roles that people should know about or any other key differentiating factors?

I think the beauty of also, like, the MSL space is that it's it's always evolving. And so that's kind of part of being in this world of, constant change. And it's that we're it's it's that companies are looking to see where the need is and maybe trying to evolve the position to be in a role where they can find, that the MSL can provide value there. For example, you know, a digital MSL, position is something that I recently started seeing and something that is newer to the space where they maybe are working more so on the digital opinion leaders. So those those opinion leaders that are more active and vocal and, have a presence online and on platforms like Twitter or previously known as Twitter, now called X.

But just an example of that, there's other roles I think that maybe I'm not as familiar with all of them, so that's that's also the other thing. It's, like, I'm learning as well. But this pipeline role is something I think that is a little different than, the traditional role, and it has evolved. So I'm happy to Oh, go ahead. Oh, no.

I was gonna say it's just, it's wonderful to see companies realize the importance of the MSL and not, you know, just putting them in a bucket that where they're only allowed to do x y z things, but thinking about, okay, how can this skill set help other business units and help other functional areas? Mhmm. Mhmm. I think the MSL role also one of the biggest, I guess qualities that a lot of MSLs have is that they're willing to, look to see what job that needs to be done, and they're willing to kind of move towards that, towards that need and the ask and, you know, how they can contribute to the team. There are so many things that we can do outside of just maybe just, the key opinion leader aspect and just meeting with people 1 on 1.

There's so many different, avenues and channels that we can provide value in. Yes. Absolutely. And speaking about, you know, the role, you know, people who are still learning about the role, it might be people in the audience right now. You know, we defined what an MSL is.

You've been giving us all of this great background on your role and and other things that you've done in the space. What are some of the other misconceptions that you hear about the role or maybe even when you started it, something you thought that would happen in the role that didn't, or the other way around? I will say that a lot of the times, I think there is still confusion about, the role as mentioned and how that we are just another sales rep or a pharma representative. And that I mean, I think I I always like to break it down for the people that I'm talking to and how the the umbrella is, like, you know, the big pharmaceutical company or the pharmaceutical or the smaller one, but there's also always a commercial side and a medical side. And that there is kind of a firewall between, but the medical side deals more with, you know, data dissemination and also insight, gathering and also, the maybe, like, research.

And, I think that that really does help. I always like to provide examples. But, yeah, the misconception is that we are just kind of, there in in the on the sales side. And so, I'd like to say that I'm actually just selling science. And, you don't always have you know, you know, there's no money.

You don't have to buy it, but science is the currency. And as, in MSL, that's kind of what we exchange. Yes. I love that I'm selling signs. So someone has to trademark that somewhere.

That's great. Yeah. It's free, but or, you know, and you just have to talk to me. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

And then, you know, kind of talking a little bit about your we've talked a little bit about your role now, how you made the transition, your involvement with the MSL Academy. Would love to hear, you know, as you were going through the program and everything, and you're gearing up for your first interview, I would love to hear about some of the things that were really important to consider for that first interview. And, you know, what do you think made the difference when you were, you know, doing your interview before and after? Would love to hear a little bit about that. Yeah.

So I'm thinking back, and it's been a while. But, my first interview, it was actually, an opportunity that was, I was able to interview with because of a person in the network, so within the academy. So, again, a very important reason why I think your network and, it's so important. But I was able to talk to a hiring manager very early. The interview went well.

I think a lot of the times, as an MSL, you know, you they want you to know the science and they want you to be able to learn the science. But, also, are you able to just navigate, like, how can you navigate a social situation, your personality? I think that's so again, that emotional intelligence aspect is really important. And then I remember going into, like, more of those final interviews where stakes were a little higher, and, you know, I I have the nerves there. I think it's only natural to be nervous in an interview, especially if it's one of the first interviews in this new career choice or this new new career transition.

And, I think it was definitely a learning, experience. You know, you make mistakes. I remember, that I think there could have been more preparation that was done. There could have been more, understanding that it can be a little bit of a conversation and, like, you know, they're interested in seeing how you would present as an MSL in the field. So kind of connecting that presentation part, if if that's the ask, to how you would do it as an MSL.

I think after a few more interviews, so I will say I had, like, probably 3 or 4 before I was able to finally land, my first role. I think that was very important because I was receiving rejections, and I was also I was making it to, you know, far, but I was receiving rejections. So it really made me sit back and reflect on what I was doing right, but also, like, what it is that needed to change and what I was doing wrong before, you know, the next interview. So it was definitely just a learning process. I think it's only part it's, like, you know, natural to be nervous and to make mistakes.

But the end goal is to learn from that mistake and bring, I guess, you know, improve it for the next interview. Yes. So so many follow-up questions. So, you know, I think that people are always wondering, you know, when they see someone in the role that that's where they wanna be, they're wondering how many applications did this person send out? How many interviews did they do?

Like, is there any way you could quantify some of that for the listeners? I think yeah. I mean, I can remember applying for probably over, when I first was trying to break into the role, over 50 positions. And so, it was very tiring, to be honest, but I was also doing it in a way where I was tailoring each, of my applications or, I guess, my CV's to the job description of each role that I was applying to. And it can be really tiring because it depended on each different TA.

I think after some time, you know, I did mention that I was very I think it was very draining, and so I did need to take a break and come back after the holiday. I was a more refreshed, you know, kind of remotivated myself, but it's it's constantly, something that, I think would I think it would really help if you have, like, a schedule of, hey. My goal by the end of this week is to send out 5 applications on on Friday, and then continue to do that consistently. Because after a while, it it is very tiring, and, you know, you you deserve a break after that. Yeah.

And can you speak a little bit more about tailoring your application? Because I think that that is something that is often overlooked. People are using, you know, the same resume that, you know, they use to get their clinical pharmacist position to, you know, then apply to the MSL role. And then TA, also if you could explain, you know, therapeutic area, what that means, and how and why you would need to tailor your application, specifically to one versus another. So when you're looking at a job description, you know, it can be it it can include a therapeutic area of interest that you're supporting.

And I think from, a higher hiring manager or a hiring perspective, you really want someone that has some sort of understanding of the space so that they don't have to start from square 0. And so I think understanding what therapeutic area, that you're interested in is very important. So it doesn't have to just be 1 or 2. You can kinda take a step back and look at what kind of experience you've had. You know, when I was a clinical pharmacist, I had, experiences in the neuro ICU unit.

I also had infectious disease experience. And taking some of those examples, like cases and examples from what I was doing when I was in as a clinical pharmacist and, kind of creating, a bank of maybe experience in cases that I could, you know, bring up in those conversations, but also put onto my, CV if it's if, you know, to help make the connection that I do have some experiences with those type of providers and with that, type of, I guess, condition or case. So I think that's one way that you can help tailor your CV. Another thing is, again, taking a more broad experience like my participation in rounds, ICU rounds, that was something I translated into something that, I could put on a resume where they can see that transferable skill of me working with physicians and being able to, communicate and be persuasive and maybe be, collaborative to end up helping patients, you know, reach their end goal. So this is just, like, a small example of tailoring, but, I think there are always, ways to, find examples online.

I know that in the MSL Academy, this is something that we we do to help the students that end up coming on board. And it's something that we know is is very important to the application process. Yes. And I yeah, I think this topic is really important because, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of people ask me, and this is something that's come up in multiple coaching calls within the MSL Academy with our current students is, for example, we have a pharmacist who is saying, you know, I work in the in the ambulatory care setting. I see cardiology.

I see endocrinology. How can I frame my experiences to help me land a role in any therapeutic area? And it's like, it's all about, you know, how you're talking about your experiences and you've had x y z experience in cardiology, but maybe that patient also has some sort of endocrine disorder. Maybe they have diabetes. And so you're talking to a patient in a cardiology clinic or an ambulatory care setting, but they have more than one disease state.

And so you're able to talk to that. Or maybe you work in a pharmacy setting and not an ambulatory setting. Maybe you work in a pharmacy. And so how many different drugs and how many different therapeutic areas are you evaluating every day? And are you speaking to the different patients coming in about these different drugs?

Right? And so there are so many different aspects of our roles currently where we're using and talking about all these different therapeutic areas, but we don't think about it because it's just such a part of our job. And so I think that that is something too, talking again about transferable skills, that this also very much applies to therapeutic areas. Yeah. And just to kind of expand on that a little bit, you know, patients, like you mentioned, have a lot of comorbidities or concomitant, conditions that they may have to have considered when you're going through their care.

So these are things to, kind of take notice and to maybe, understand that, like, you are you have a lot more experience than you think outside of just maybe one therapeutic area. And you dig into your experiences even further than just your current role. Like, did you have any organizational experiences in the past? This is just one example, but, you know, when I was going through pharmacy school, I also was part of a dental mission trip where the pharmacist that attended this dental mission trip really helped with, like, the pain the pain aspect of post dental care and then also evaluating them with for physical examinations and, education about HIV, and that was something that, you know, that I brought with me when I was applying for an infectious disease position. I think this is just a small example, but, you just have to kinda dig dig deeper into seeing, you know, your past roles because sometimes you don't think about your your previous experience as much as what you're doing now.

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And then, you know, even building upon this, something that I hear all the time so this speaks to our discussion on transferable skills, but something I hear all the time is that people just feel so unqualified to apply for an MSL role. And they're like, oh, I don't have the experience.

It says in the job description you're supposed to have, you know, 1 to 3 years or 3 to 5 years experience. I know what I would say to that. And you know, I guess I'll just say it right now. So I was gonna ask you first what I guess I'll just say because I can't contain myself. I would say, you know, to me, a job description is that they're suggestions.

Like everything where it says, oh, you you know, you need to have this, you need to have this, I just view them as suggestions. If I think that some of my skills can translate, as we were talking about before, if I think that I've had some experiences that perhaps are unconventional, but, you know, maybe they do speak to some of the expertise that they're looking for, I would say, why not apply? And then in addition to that application, of course, put in a little bit of effort with the networking. And as we were talking about with LinkedIn, sending a DM to, like a direct message to someone at the company. Maybe it's someone in that department or maybe it's someone in the HR department where it says HR comma medical affairs, for example.

And just sending them a message. You know, they might not see the message, which is fine. But at least you feel like you've done your due diligence because you're putting yourself out there and saying, okay, I know I'd be a fit for this role, so I'm gonna apply. And then I'm also gonna make and be, you know, as as using your words, Anita, like to be the bridge. Right?

And see is there some way that I can bridge, you know, where I am now to, you know, someone at the company to at least have some sort of mutual connection. And then, you know, go from there, but kind of setting yourself up for success. And so that's that's my opinion. Would love to hear yours on, you know, what if someone feels like they're unqualified or they don't fit those key, you know, like, requirements? I think that's oftentimes what they say is requirements for a role.

I love how you hit on, you know, setting yourself up for success, Sawhie, because I think that's so important. I do think, you know, that in this world of, where we just read job descriptions and we just look at a screen, we sometimes don't really, you know, understand how this is just, yeah, a limitation of what they want. But once, you know, you get in front of someone and once you are able to kinda tell your story, then that can be totally different. So I I think there's a saying. It's like you miss all shots you don't take.

And I truly agree with that. I truly, believe that. I think everyone has their different qualities, characteristics, and their different experiences. And the way that you kind of tell your story is so important. And so not only I think that you brought up a good point.

Not only applying for the position online, but also doing the extra steps is so important. And this is just one example, but, when I I recently got my role from doing that exact thing, I tapped into my I applied, but I also tapped into my network, and I found out that someone who was an alumni at my, you know, my pharmacy school was actually working in that organization. And so reaching out to them as an extra, measure to see if that is a way that I can at least get someone to, you know, have a conversation with me to see if I'm a fit for them and they're a fit for me. So and I think that applying and just letting it sit in the, application universe is not necessarily the most effective use of your time, or and it's not the best way to, put yourself in the best position to get the role because there's so many people that are applying online. And I think there are a lot of, I think AI and different aspects of that process that might mistakenly weed you out or might mistakenly leave you in the in the, I guess, platform or whatever it is.

And so taking the extra steps is so important. So that effort of with networking, I totally agree with you on. Mhmm. Amazing. Amazing.

So if anyone has any questions, I know we've been babbling, babbling, babbling for the past, you know, 50 minutes. So, we'd love to open it up to any questions that anyone has. Please Please do not hesitate to put them in the the LinkedIn chat here, and we can take a look at them. In the meantime, I have I have other questions as well, if people don't, if people don't, come forward with any questions. But, you know, as you're as you're looking to the future, how would you say, you know, even actually, like, let's go back a little bit, but even, you know, from the last 4 years of being in the role and then looking to the future, what would you say has been, you know, like something that's evolved in the MSL role and something that you continue to see as something that will change?

I think the easy answer is, AI because, that is something that is kind of top of mind for everyone in the pharmaceutical space and how to leverage that AI in a way that is both respectful to, you know, the patients that we're serving, but also, you know, time saving measures on our side. So I think that's one thing. I know that, you know, there's a lot being developed in the AI space in in terms of the resources and what they can be used for. So understanding and not being afraid of it. So if you're someone that's interested in going into the MSL position, trying to be knowledgeable and participate in those webinars or, like, learn or read more about what how important AI is can be in this field, and not trying to shy away from it because it's it's coming, and it's going to come regardless of how if we want it or not.

So leaning in and, being Start being comfortable with it even if you're not. That's one thing I think, just like the different positions within the medical affairs space. Like, there's always an evolution, and we already talked about that before. But I'm not really sure even I can't even predict all the different, avenues that, you know, the MSL, position can be kinda utilized in. And so maybe just kind of being ready for what's to come there and being able to adapt your resume and your experience to something that maybe is coming up in the future.

Yes. All right. So we have a question in the chat. How important is clinical experience for the MSL role? This person is asking as a PhD who has done clinical research in plea preclinical research in disease areas.

Thank you. Thank you for your question, Amino. So, I can take this one first, as I think it is very important, to have at least a baseline understanding of that process of how clinical the, you know, the steps of clinical research and, and preclinical research is a little less, prominent in, I think, the MSO, but more so in, like, research and development. It's good to have that understanding, but I think, as MSLs, we're kind of dealing more with like the furthers the the later steps and the humans that eventually will be, receiving the the molecule, the medications that go to market. So I think it is important, but leveraging more of the clinical research experience.

And I'll I'll, if I miss anything, Safi, I'll, pass it over to you. Yeah. I was gonna say that, your experience with clinical research and preclinical research will be helpful. I'll echo the same sentiment that clinical research will be more important. But that being said, at the end of the day, it's all about how you can communicate connector.

You know, how can we, you know, as MSLs, be the person to help disseminate this information And how can we disseminate it in an objective way? And so that is, I would argue, just as important as clinical experience. I think clinical experience gives you a lens where you can say, okay. Like, I've seen patients with x, y, z condition, and I think that's helpful. However, I think that when it comes to the role and being successful in the role, it's more about, okay, like and I mean, someone who has clinical experience and a researcher, both of those entities or both of those people are going to know how to, you know, read, primary literature, you know, academic paper.

They're gonna know how to break down the, you know, important details of it. But what really sets those people apart in an MSL is someone who's able to then convey the key important information from it to someone who is, you know, a KOL or an opinion leader in the space. So I guess we're both speaking a lot, but I would say in short, I think it it is important, but what's more important is how you can communicate that information more than the clinical experience itself. I think clinical experience helps. But if you look at the proportion of people who are PharmDs, PhDs, MDs, it's pretty split down the middle.

And so I don't think anyone is gonna get preferential treatment based on having a PhD or a PharmD or an MD. I think it's more of how how they come off and how their interview process goes and how they're able to articulate certain complicated concepts. I'll add one more quick comment too is that on the teams that I've worked on so far, they are just so diverse in background and that's something I think the leadership and the the companies look for. They don't want everyone to be just a Pharm d or everyone to be a PhD or everyone to be an NP. Right?

They want a diversity of backgrounds just because we all bring a different perspective. So, you know, my previous teams, I had NPs, PhDs, PharmDs. Now I have PAs on my team. Even even, like, if they don't come from a clinical background, like, clinical experience background, I think that clinical research background is so helpful too. And it's the way that you can communicate that data, but also ask the question after of what else do we need?

What's missing that our the community or our providers are looking for. So, I think a diversity of backgrounds is definitely something that, companies are, open to. Yes. Well said. All right.

So we have another question coming in the chat. So as I have gone on MSL interviews and met with hiring managers, after I found out that I did not get the role, I asked for feedback from hiring managers. A common thing that was told to me was that they moved on with people that had more pharma or TA or therapeutic area experience. Is there any way for me to combat this on future interviews? Swati, do you wanna take this one first or you can go first.

Go ahead. Okay. Mhmm. So, just thinking back, I know that, you know, hiring managers can be really, like, their time can be limited because they are going through so many interviews. And, I think that that is not something that, you know, we you can control.

I think a good way to, you know, address this barrier that you may have is using those transferable skills and translating them in your interview. So being able to communicate kind of the reason why you think you will have, this experience, this this pharma and therapeutic area experience because you do x, y, and z already. And that's a good way, I think, for them to understand, like, okay. Once, you know, they get the position, they wouldn't they don't need as much hand holding, and they they'll be very, they'll be able to kind of, again, hit the ground running. I think that's so important because time is always limited.

I think when you're when you're trying to fill a position and you're trying to also you have all these goals and strategies that you need to implement. So it's a lot for, I think, hiring managers to sit there and, explain exactly what it is that, are you know, give provide feedback. But in to move forward and for you, I think it's very important to be able to translate those transferable skills, to be able to, communicate that. Yeah. I I would echo the same thing.

And so it's it's not just about, okay, you haven't had an experience in pharma yet. And it's not just about, oh, okay, you haven't, you know, had, you know, a bunch of experience, let's say, in dermatology before, and that's the the, therapeutic area that you're applying to. But how can you demonstrate through, you know, partially transferable skills, but also, you know, other experiences that you've had that show that let's say, like, you know, so far, you know, you work in a clinic setting and you work in cardiology. I don't know why I keep picking cardiology, but, that you work in the cardiology setting. So, again, like, who are you seeing within the cardiology context?

Are you having any conversations pertaining to dermatology? Or so that's one of the routes. The other route is that maybe you're not having conversations about dermatology, but you can take some of the ways that you stay up to date on clinical research or the, you know, the new guidelines and things like that in cardiology or show that you are such an expert in cardiology that it is going to be a piece of cake for you to take on any other therapeutic area because you've built such a great foundation in this other therapeutic area that you could easily translate it to another. And it's actually like, it's something that I'm always fascinated with because I see MSLs, for example, that start off, you know, in HIV, and then all of a sudden their next role is in dermatology. And I'm like, that is amazing.

But to me, that means that they've demonstrated in their interview process that, you know, yes, I'm an expert in this, But just because I'm an expert in this, that actually means that I can become an expert in any therapeutic area because, you know, I'm willing to know where to look, where the resources are, and I'm willing to do the work to figure it out. So I think that's that's also a key part too is you don't necessarily need to have that therapeutic area expertise. Of course, it helps. But if you don't, then how can you demonstrate that what you've done in the past could then set you up to be very successful in learning it. Then the other thing to say is, like, you know, if you don't have other pharma experience, one of the things to consider is that, you know, maybe you don't initially go into becoming an MSL, but maybe you consider other medical affairs positions.

Like there's medical information specialists, there's medical information managers, there's medical communications, all sorts of levels within medical communications. And those are, again, you know, how can you convey this information, but from a more internal standpoint. So you're not, you know, a field based position. You're not going out and speaking to different, you know, key opinion leaders or external stakeholders. Instead, you are the information expert or the medical expert on that team as it pertains to expert or the medical expert on that team as it pertains to information flow or as it pertains to, you know, different bits of content that are going out from labeling all the way to, you know, blog content for that matter.

So, I think that that could be a great way. And I think a lot of people that are interested in the MSL role, like it doesn't have to be a I'm doing this now and I immediately wanna transition into the MSL role. You could take on another role along the way. I also know people who have decided to go to into, you know, clinical operations where they've decided to go and become like a clinical scientist or something on the r and d or clinical science side. And then due to what they understand now about clinical research from, you know, being on those teams, they're like, now I'm ready to convey this information to external stakeholders.

And so now they wanna become MSLs. So that would be another thing to consider. I do think that those roles are just a smidge easier to break into. And so that would be something to consider. And if you wanna ask more questions or continue the conversation about that, we're happy to do that.

Also, I didn't realize it's already it's already 9 o'clock EST. So that just flew by. What a great conversation. Does anyone have any last minute question that they wanna put in the chat? Because we're happy to answer it.

We'll answer one more if it comes through in the next minute or so. But otherwise, thank you so much to everyone who came live and who, you know, was participating and everything. Amazing. Oh, we do have one more question. Okay.

Minelle said, are there companies that are more open to hiring MSLs with no prior experience? Oh, I'll let you take that, Anita. I have some thoughts, but, I'll I'll I'll take it after you. I mean, that was me 4 years ago. So I would say yes.

Not all companies necessarily will do that, but I don't think that, I don't think it's out of the it's not out of the question. It's, again, the way that you can connect with the the hiring managers, the team, and show your value and what you can bring to the table. So, I would say the easy answer is yes. There are companies that are open to hiring MSLs with no prior experience. Definitely.

I would say if we are comparing and contrasting, you know, companies that might be more interested, I would say, that there isn't really a particular type of company that would be more or less interested. Because, you know, I see, you know, some smaller companies that are like, you know what? Like, we want someone who knows it because we don't have anyone to help train them. So we want someone with previous MSL experience who are just who's just gonna come in and do the thing. You know?

So that there is that side, but then there also are are other smaller companies who are like, you know what? We understand we don't have the name recognition. So maybe we'll take on someone who has less experience and then they can grow with us. So it's just like the perspective that the company has, because some companies are more like the first example and the other ones are more like the last example. So it's not really like it doesn't really come down to size or anything.

It's more of who is the hiring manager and are they willing to take a chance on you? And I think that those hiring managers can be found in in any company. Along with that, I would say, you know, timing as well. You know, again, with the company, what where they're at in their timeline of with the product that they have, if they are at market, if they aren't. So, again, I echo everything that Safi said, but, I think it really depends on the, I guess, the strategy of that company and the and their the team that they're hiring.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for everyone's engagement and for everyone coming this evening. I know it's late, but great conversation. Anita, thank you again for your time and for sharing your expertise. And we will be back next month to have another great conversation.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.